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View Full Version : Black Diamond - earyl to mid 60's


fifemr
03-07-2004, 07:03 PM
I have a 52 Bus that has an eary to mid 60's engine. Where can I find the engine identification number?

I need to rebuid the engine, any recommendations for parts vendors for bearings, pistons etc?

A120er
03-07-2004, 09:19 PM
Well. The engine size & serial # are both located in the upper right side of the engine, on the block. this is if you are sitting in the truck. On the left if you are working on the engine, reaching over the passenger panel. ( under the right, front side of the valve cover)
Here is a list of BD engines, guessing that its bigger than a BD264.

BD220, 240, 241, 264, 265, 282, 308,


In 1962, for arguements, there were 3 gas straight six engines. The 264, 308 & 282. (308 engine was an option on bus models instead of the 345)

Parts? Do search on the binder bulletins message board for parts. Only a few engine parts companies available for the big guys.

www.binderbulletin.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9

Also Navistar!

rick:p

fifemr
03-07-2004, 09:30 PM
Thanks for the info Rick.

The Prophet
03-08-2004, 10:20 AM
As a point of order, the 241 and 265 were never Black Diamonds.

They were "BG" or "Blue Green" or "Blue Grey" depending on who you ask.

Hence "BG241" and "BG265".

They were Black Diamond engines, but simply re-labeled by IHC in the last year of production for them in the Light Line which was 1968. They just never came from the factory with "BD" on them.

They were painted a different color than prior engines, which was the only real difference. Catchy marketing ploy I would venture.

Once you determine which engine you have, there is a parts list database at the top of this forum to assist you. We are building more and more for it all the time. NAPA has a large inventory of internal engine parts still, and NAPA online even lists a good majority of it.

The only place you can run into problems is with pistons. BD264 pistons are very difficult to locate right now, the main manufacturer of them, "Zollner" no longer makes them. Hastings still makes piston rings, both 3 and 5 ring designs, but if you have a bad piston or two, expect to pay big dollars to someone who has NOS ones laying around.

"IHWillys" on this board, and on the Binder Bulletin, is currently rebuilding a BD264, and ran into this problem. The BD motors are very strong, but don't take kindly to be overrevved ( a common issue it seems).

BD240's and BG241's can be re-sleeved to allow the original pistons to be re-used if needed. The NAPA parts catalog lists this as a current fix for out-of-spec cylinder bores. My research continues.

Bearings, Gaskets, Rings, oil pumps, water pumps, radiator hoses, etc.. all still available.

Navistar still stocks some parts, but mainly for the Red Diamond engine.

Old IHC Parts Warehouse in Texas is another source for parts, as well as Stevida's.

Hope this helps.

Keep on Binderin',

John

IHWillys
03-08-2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by The Prophet
"IHWillys" on this board, and on the Binder Bulletin, is currently rebuilding a BD264, and ran into this problem. The BD motors are very strong, but don't take kindly to be overrevved ( a common issue it seems).


Quite right. I've related my 264's story on the BB pre-'60 forum.

I cannot attest to the difficulty in finding oversize pistons, but STD pistons are certainly now in the rare category. I found the two I need but from two different sources. The first source, EGGE Machine, sent me the last one they had(~$50 shipped). The next source, through third party contact, cost me $105 plus shipping for one piston and pin.

The damage my engine suffered(melted rear piston, broken top rings) is classic indication of overrevving. I now have a non-stock equipment list: a tach. If I wasn't keeping the thing in the mid-twentieth century technology wise, I'd seriously consider an electronic ignition with a soft rev limiter. A governor would've been nice on trucks like mine(6.17 r/p).

Ken

ragtopkid
03-09-2004, 06:31 PM
I found a set of 0.020 oversize Zollners for my BD-264, and they were not cheap $90 each. I had to sleeve and bore number one to make them work. The fitting instructions were last update in 1968.
RTK

Goober
03-19-2004, 12:53 PM
Prophet, you said that bearings are available. Does this include main bearings? I can find rod and cam bearing but that is all. Where can I find mains?

The Prophet
03-22-2004, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by Goober
Prophet, you said that bearings are available. Does this include main bearings? I can find rod and cam bearing but that is all. Where can I find mains?

Main Bearings should be available at NAPA under thier "house brand", which should be Durabond.

Federal Mogul still lists them as well.

Binderin',

John

Goober
03-23-2004, 06:41 AM
Thanks John, I ordered my bearings y-day. They had a heck of a time finding them though.

The Prophet
03-23-2004, 06:52 AM
Originally posted by Goober
Thanks John, I ordered my bearings y-day. They had a heck of a time finding them though.

Yes, I had the same experience :D

But, the parts guy knows anymore that when I walk in that he needs to get out the books, and stay away from the computer ;)

He actually was quite surprised to find out they still listed engine parts for his Dad's Studebaker in there too.

Guess us IH'ers do a good turn now and then for others.

Binderin',

John

Colin Rush
03-24-2004, 12:31 AM
A wrecking yard I went to last weekend with some friends has a ton of used parts, and many new parts that he bought from a company that went out of business. If you have problems finding some items, I can see if he has them, as long as you can get me a part number. Among things he has there are ReNewed water pumps, engine bearings, brake shoes, and an NOS block (!). I am not yet versed enough in IHC inlines to know what the block was, but it is a real find for someone. He also has a lot of good sheet metal, used motors, front ends, steering columns, grilles, and so on. The yard is in Portland, Oregon. I hope to show the Prophet around there for a little while soon.

Goober
03-24-2004, 06:47 AM
Take a camera. i would love to see some pictures of that unused block.

59binder
11-15-2004, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by A120er
Well. The engine size & serial # are both located in the upper right side of the engine, on the block. this is if you are sitting in the truck. On the left if you are working on the engine, reaching over the passenger panel. ( under the right, front side of the valve cover)
Here is a list of BD engines, guessing that its bigger than a BD264.

BD220, 240, 241, 264, 265, 282, 308,
rick:p

This is great information. However, I am a complete binder newb, and I have yet to get the 45 years worth of grime off of the motor, will it be in english or will I need a cross reference? i.e. will it just say bd264?

I just got a 59 utility truck, that has been updated to 12v, and it runs damn nice. I am thinking that it is on a second motor, but need to find out for sure.

tia
j

A120er
11-16-2004, 09:51 AM
59,
It will be lightly 'scribed' on a smooth area. Will only say BD/BG 240/41 or whatever. It wiil be in spanish. Just kidding. Only in English on these babies. Here is the exact location directions for the engine ID.

1. Open hood and place your left hand on the passenger side headlight trim.(chrome)
Right hand on the radiator.

2. Bend over to where your chest almost hits the vehicle. Will be resting between the headlght and radiator. Look to your right!

3. FOLLOW THESE PATHS.
Follow the generator bracket bolt (or the bottom bolt for the water pump)
straight back about 3 1/2 inches. There you will see a smooth piece of metal thats verticle.

or

Follow the exhaust manifold bolt, farthest to the front straight down about the same distance.

4. Where these two points meet up is where you will find that smooth part of the engine. Take a razor blade and scrape down.

The first numbers will be the engine size, the next will be the IH engine code or numbers 408---- or something. Like this,


BD264
49815243


If you print this page out and turn it 90 degrees to the right, thats how it will appear on the block. Try it.
Now if you can't find the numbers, I'll shoot you. Just kidding.


On if its the original engine. Other than having it from new, I can't tell you how to see if its stock. Does it really matter? My situation is cool. My 58' A120 is a 144" step side service truck. Ordered with the BD264 and NP201/pto option. Somewhere it must of blew the engineand it was rebuilt/serviced at IH. There is a repair plate on the engine where the new specs are listed. Has about 20,000 miles on her. Parked in 86'.

59binder
11-16-2004, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by A120er
59,
It will be lightly 'scribed' on a smooth area. Will only say BD/BG 240/41 or whatever. It wiil be in spanish. Just kidding. Only in English on these babies. Here is the exact location directions for the engine ID.

1. Open hood and place your left hand on the passenger side headlight trim.(chrome)
Right hand on the radiator.

2. Bend over to where your chest almost hits the vehicle. Will be resting between the headlght and radiator. Look to your right!

3. FOLLOW THESE PATHS.
Follow the generator bracket bolt (or the bottom bolt for the water pump)
straight back about 3 1/2 inches. There you will see a smooth piece of metal thats verticle.

or

Follow the exhaust manifold bolt, farthest to the front straight down about the same distance.

4. Where these two points meet up is where you will find that smooth part of the engine. Take a razor blade and scrape down.

The first numbers will be the engine size, the next will be the IH engine code or numbers 408---- or something. Like this,


BD264
49815243


If you print this page out and turn it 90 degrees to the right, thats how it will appear on the block. Try it.
Now if you can't find the numbers, I'll shoot you. Just kidding.


THAT was some funny sh!t!
oh and thanks!