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  #1  
Old 10-02-2009
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Mastiff Mastiff is offline
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T90 rebuild, confusion

I'm working on rebuilding my T90 trans. I got the rebuild kit from Novak. I read that this should work even though they market for Jeeps, but now I have my doubts. But then, a PO may have done something weird too.

First off, has anyone rebuilt their T90 with a Novak kit?

One thing I noticed right away is that my trans has bigger clutch "pawls" ("dogs"?) than those I got from novak. I'm talking about the 3 rectangular pieces that mate with the synchros. The new synchros have correspondingly smaller notches in them, so that would be okay, but the clutch hub is not part of the rebuild kit and has bigger slots too. I don't know if this matters?

The other weird thing is on the countershaft, I pulled out half the number of rollers as came with the kit. Thing is I don't have as many as shown in the IH manual either. The manual and the kit have two sets of rollers on each side of the spacer but my trans has a longer spacer with only one set of rollers on each side. Any idea what this is about? I could probably just go with it, but I'm not 100% that it would all fit.

By the way, how the heck do you install all those rollers? It sounds like they are supposed to just be all stuck to the inside of the cluster gear with lube, then later on you somehow pound the shaft through without any of them coming out of place?? ouch.
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1965 Scout 80. 152/T-90/D18, Dana 44 rear, D27 front.
Status: Engine, trans, T-case, axles all rebuilt. Lift springs and 32" tires installed. All new electrical and Autometer gauges.
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  #2  
Old 10-02-2009
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guidolyons guidolyons is offline
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Re: T90 rebuild, confusion

Scout-ED rebuilt his T-90 recently and he used the Novak jeep kit:
http://www.justih.org/Binder-Bench/s...ad.php?t=10230

Here's a post of his from Binder Planet:
http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/s...50&postcount=4
Quote:
Originally Posted by scout-ED
You can replace just the 2nd gear and synchro rings, however, if you are going thru all the trouble to pull the trans and open it up it wouldn't be any more work to do a complete overhaul. I did mine last year (had similar issues; popping out of 2nd and pretty much grinding into all gears). I used a T90 Master Rebuild kit from Novak; http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/t90_parts.htm
The kit is about $40 cheap now too!!! Advertised for J**Ps but upon inspection during the rebuild all my Scout parts matched perfectly. Found this step by step rebuild guide that was indispensible during the rebuild: http://www.willystech.com/wt/T90Rebu...T90rebuild.htm

Good luck!

I thought I remember reading about some of the IH T-90's having slight differences from the jeep T-90? I have no reference for that though...just something floating around in my head.
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1965 Scout 80- 7.3PSD/ZF/203/205 D60F/14BFF
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  #3  
Old 10-02-2009
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Re: T90 rebuild, confusion

After reading around, it seems that some T90's match Jeeps and some don't. Scout-ED must have the Jeep style. The Scout unique ones have wider synchro tabs. After reading this guy's horror story, I'm inclined to just keep my syhcnros and tabs and just replace bearings and seals:

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=80822

I would think that I could convert to Jeep style by getting a Jeep style clutch hub, but I'm not confident in this.
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1965 Scout 80. 152/T-90/D18, Dana 44 rear, D27 front.
Status: Engine, trans, T-case, axles all rebuilt. Lift springs and 32" tires installed. All new electrical and Autometer gauges.
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  #4  
Old 10-03-2009
scout-ED scout-ED is offline
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Re: T90 rebuild, confusion

Hey Mastiff,

The pawls I removed where the same size as the ones in the kit (i.e. small) but they fit into my clutch hub slots so it all worked...Makes me wonder what year IH switched internals in the T90s or if a PO had already done a rebuild with ALL J**P parts??? From the S/N on my VIN plate, mine is a late '62 (sold and first registered in '63).
Anyways, I would guess that you could use your original pawls/clutch hub if they aren't awfully worn and just replace everything else in the kit and be fine...I wonder if you could find the correct "Scout" pawls from some of the LL dealers? SSS, Anything Scout, Mr. Scout, Coonrods, etc...

As for installing the roller bearings, with the use of LOTS assembly grease and the tools listed in this write-up it was a snap:
http://www.willystech.com/wt/T90Rebu...T90rebuild.htm
Make sure you make all those "tools" in the list, it takes a little extra time to cut and sand the dowels but saved HOURS of work and most importantly FRUSTRATION With the use of the rebuild guide my 9 year old son was able to grease/pack and help me install the bearings so it's not super difficult if you follow the process exactly. I re-read the guide MANY times and made sure it was close by for reference while I worked and my rebuild followed this guide to the "T"...all parts matched exactly so it looks like I have one of the "early" T90, same as the J**Ps... I do remember when researching before my rebuild that there are a couple variations on the T90 trans, I'll try and find that info.

Been driving on the rebuild for over a year now and still working good! (fingers crossed ) Let me know if you have any more questions and happy to give you any help I can!

Good luck!
Ernie

**Added info**

Searched out on Novak's site and found some of the info on different T90 models (listed below). I'm wondering if in the later models they switched to the larger pawls, according to this doc mine would fall under a T90A1. Hope this helps some.

T90A1
The T90 used from 1946 to 1962 with the L and F-head four-cylinder engines is designated as the T90A1. These versions all feature top shifters, a 7" input shaft (stick-out length) with 15/16" x 10 splines and a felt-sealed front bearing retainer assembly. The input shaft has an 18 tooth, helically cut input gear. The cluster gear has a 33 tooth driven gear, resulting in a 2.79:1 first gear and a 1.55:1 second gear.
Jeep T90 Specifications

T90C
The T90 used from used from 1963 to 1971 with the F-head four-cylinder engine is designated as the T90C. It features top shifters, a 7" input shaft (stick-out length) with 15/16" x 10 splines and a felt-sealed front bearing retainer assembly. Since the T90C uses a case marked "T90A", you will need assurance that the transmission in question came from a post-'62 Jeep, or you will need to pull the top cover and count teeth. The T90C has a 16 tooth, helically cut input gear. The cluster gear has a 35 tooth driven gear, resulting in a 3.34:1 first gear and a 1.85:1 second gear.

T90J
The T90J was used with the six-cylinder trucks from 1952 to 1965. These were either column or floor shift models. They had an ~9-1/4" input shaft (stick-out length) with a 10 x 1-1/8" splines and a neoprene-sealed front bearing retainer assembly. The T90J has an 18 tooth, helically cut input gear. The cluster gear has a 33 tooth driven gear, resulting in a 2.79:1 first gear and a 1.66:1 second gear.

Last edited by scout-ED; 10-03-2009 at 07:53 AM.
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Old 10-03-2009
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Re: T90 rebuild, confusion

Thanks for the info. I think I have three options:

1) Use the Novak kit except just reuse my brass rings and pawls.
2) Same as 1 except try to find a source for Scout style rings and pawls.
3) Buy a clutch hub from Novak and convert fully to Jeep style.

I'm not sure about #3. It sounds like what the rebuilder tried to do for that guy who went through hell. But then it seems like it should work, and if it did life would be easier in the future to be common with Jeeps.

I wonder if there is any strength advantage to the bigger pawls. Why else would they bother being different?

The other thing I noticed relative to the Novak Jeep stuff is that the IH T90's have no oil collector. Novak makes a big deal of this in their writeup, but my case doesn't even have the holes required to mount the collector. Did you have a collector Scout-ED?
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1965 Scout 80. 152/T-90/D18, Dana 44 rear, D27 front.
Status: Engine, trans, T-case, axles all rebuilt. Lift springs and 32" tires installed. All new electrical and Autometer gauges.
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Old 10-03-2009
scout-ED scout-ED is offline
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Re: T90 rebuild, confusion

I would think that option #3 would, "should" work...but then again you have a point about why would the Scout pawls be larger than J**Ps??? No, I had no oil collector either.
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Old 10-03-2009
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Re: T90 rebuild, confusion

Is it possible to call this company,Novak, and get there input? I would be interested in there reply.........
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Old 10-03-2009
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Re: T90 rebuild, confusion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadworthy View Post
Is it possible to call this company,Novak, and get there input? I would be interested in there reply.........
I've got an Email in and I will be calling them Monday when they are open. They market for Jeeps, so it's not really their problem, but... I did get a quote from them a while back to just do the rebuild for me, so I'd hope they have the ability to get the correct parts.
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1965 Scout 80. 152/T-90/D18, Dana 44 rear, D27 front.
Status: Engine, trans, T-case, axles all rebuilt. Lift springs and 32" tires installed. All new electrical and Autometer gauges.
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