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  #1  
Old 12-11-2011
sprdve sprdve is offline
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What drop pitman arm will fit?

Ok I am making headway on swapping the Scout II axles (stayed SUA) into my 80 and am wondering what drop pitman arm will bolt onto my steering box and will accept a standard drag link end instead of the ball joint style? Seems like a good time to update that component as well as the rest of the front end.

Last edited by sprdve; 12-11-2011 at 04:23 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-11-2011
Rookie Rookie is offline
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

You should consider swapping the steering box too. Guessing that you don't have ps yet also right?
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  #3  
Old 12-12-2011
sprdve sprdve is offline
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

Power steering is nice and I know I have gone to a lot of trouble upgrading axles, brakes...pretty much everything. The steering on my rig was pretty light even with the closed knuckle 30 (compared to others I have driven/owned), so I am just going to live with it for a bit, I need to stop somewhere or I am never going to be able to drive this thing just work on it forever.

So back to the original question, is there a direct bolt on pitman arm for a manual steering 80 that accepts TRE's? Or do I just need to get it reamed and go from there?
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  #4  
Old 12-12-2011
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

If you don't need the drop, you can press out the ball, which has a taper, but I'm not sure it is a standard TRE taper or not. You might find a larger heavier duty TRE might fit, or you might need to ream it out with the proper taper reamer, or drill it and weld in a flip-cert (tapered insert). It's worth popping it off and checking the spline count and the major and minor diameters (taper), a lot of 60's/70's/80's/90's cars and trucks used the same Saginaw boxes and shared spline count and taper. I'm just not sure if the early Scout manual steering boxes will match. My stock box is long gone, but I seem to remember it was a bit smaller than the GM PS box & Jeep Wagoneer pitman arm I used.

Give the guys at PartsMike a call (530)885-0673 http://www.partsmike.com/store/store.php?crn=204 , they have a wide variety of pitman arms and can even do custom pitman arms if they don't have something that will work off the shelf. Reasonable prices, too. They can also hook you up with the other steering parts you need (drag link, tie rod ends, etc)

http://www.justih.org/Binder-Bench/s...ghlight=pitman

AZ Scout guy says a Scout II (Manual steering box NOT PS box) will fit (but it's probably super long
http://www.justih.org/Binder-Bench/s...ghlight=pitman
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Last edited by guidolyons; 12-16-2011 at 01:28 PM.
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  #5  
Old 12-12-2011
sprdve sprdve is offline
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

Thanks Guido,

The drop is not necessary but an inch or so would be nice, I was just hoping there was an easy straight across swap (I should know better). I will call Pars Mike and see what we can figure out.
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  #6  
Old 12-12-2011
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

If a sII arm will fit, then a wagoneer will as well. Both have the same spline count and taper.
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  #7  
Old 12-15-2011
4ByFourByeIV 4ByFourByeIV is offline
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

Now for the question I need an answer to.... Is there a dropped pitman arm that will bot directly to the stock setup of a 62 80 with ball joint and all???
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  #8  
Old 12-15-2011
Oregon80 Oregon80 is offline
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

From a Scout 800 4cyl 67-71
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  #9  
Old 12-15-2011
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie View Post
If a sII arm will fit, then a wagoneer will as well. Both have the same spline count and taper.
Only Scout II manual pitman arms work and only on Scouts 800's with v8's 67-71

The old 55-75 CJ had the same spline as the Scout manual box, they also had a ball on the end but I think it's cast in. the newer 75-86 CJ's with manual steering should be the same but will be keyed in four spots, early Scout 80/800 boxes are not keyed so you will have to deal with that.
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  #10  
Old 12-16-2011
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by az scout guy View Post
Only Scout II manual pitman arms work and only on Scouts 800's with v8's 67-71

The old 55-75 CJ had the same spline as the Scout manual box, they also had a ball on the end but I think it's cast in. the newer 75-86 CJ's with manual steering should be the same but will be keyed in four spots, early Scout 80/800 boxes are not keyed so you will have to deal with that.
Thanks for the clarification
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  #11  
Old 12-16-2011
sprdve sprdve is offline
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

For sure, thats the kind of info I needed
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  #12  
Old 12-30-2011
sprdve sprdve is offline
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

Ok I searched high and low for a pitman arm that would work with my stock steering box and accept a TRE to no avail. I could have had mine reamed but it is still only 5" center to center and I don't think I would get full potential out of the turning raduis of the new axle with this setup.

What I did find is a shop in town that has pitman arm blanks 1" thich steel that I can have the spline section of my old pitman arm machined and pressed into. I will gain an additional 2 1/2" of "throw" which should allow my new axles to have full turn stop to stop. I picked up some TRE's and will get some DOM and just make a drag link. Not sure if I will do the weld in inserts or just have the pipe tapped for threads. All this is new to me so it has been a pretty steep learning curve.
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Old 12-30-2011
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

A pitman arm from a 2WD Scout 800 is a little longer than the 4WD version, and is just the right length to give full steering movement on a Scout II Dana 44 front end with manual steering. You would have to cut off the ball stud, weld up the hole and then ream it to the correct taper for the desired tie rod end. I've done this on two Scouts and it works great.
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  #14  
Old 12-30-2011
sprdve sprdve is offline
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

Ok that is good info, does the 2wd 800 steering box share the same sector shaft size as the 80?
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  #15  
Old 01-02-2012
sprdve sprdve is offline
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

Hey Goerge,

Could I bug you for the distance center to center on one of those 2wd 800 pitman arms?

Thanks
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  #16  
Old 01-03-2012
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

It's 5 3/4". As for the shaft size, I believe all of the 800 boxes use the same size shaft. IIRC there are two different sizes that were used on the 80s. I think maybe some of the very early 80s had a different size shaft. The 80 guys can chime in here.
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  #17  
Old 01-04-2012
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

I had some parts laying around the shop from a manual steer CJ 1976, I put the pitman arm on a Scout manual box and it worked, there are still four key ways in the pitman arm and the early Scouts don't have them. same spline count and shaft size though
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  #18  
Old 01-04-2012
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

Thanks guys for all the help, really.

If someone can help me out with a steering geometry lesson that would be great.

Last night I jacked up the front end, centered the box and the pitman arm got a measurement of 33" from pitman to where I need to go on the knuckle. Then I turned the thing hard right tape measure says 34.5" then hard left 31.5" What is the deal here? I know my pitman is not keyed so is there a "sweet spot" for it to get equal turning? This was all with my stock pitman arm so I know the math will change with that.
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  #19  
Old 01-04-2012
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

Move the pitman arm one spline on the shaft and see if you get closer.

I should explain that when I said the 2WD Scout 800 pitman arm will give full steering movement with the 44 front end, that's with the drag link attached to the tie rod like the stock 800 setup. It also happens to work with the Parts Mike high steer knuckles, because the steering arms on the PM knuckles are shorter than those on the stock Scout II knuckles.
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  #20  
Old 01-04-2012
sprdve sprdve is offline
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

George do you have any pictures of your setup?
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  #21  
Old 01-04-2012
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

The first pic shows my white Scout: SOA with a Scout II Dana 44. The drag link attaches to a block which is welded to the tie rod. Yes, it's a ridiculous drag link angle, but it has worked OK. I have a set of Parts Mike high steer knuckles ready to go on this one when I get around to it.
The second pic is my yellow 800, again SOA with a Dana 44. This one shows the high steer setup with Parts Mike knuckles.
Both Scouts are using the 2WD Scout 800 pitman arm modified to accept a regular tie rod end.
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  #22  
Old 01-04-2012
sprdve sprdve is offline
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

Ooooooooooohhhhhh... that makes a lot more sense, I knew there was no way the extra 3/4" of that other arm was going to get me full turn by connecting to the end of the knuckle. I have read your comments regarding this in other threads and it just passed right on through.

I may very well end up doing just like the first picture you attached, connecting to the drag link. I am still SUA so my angle will be minimal, I see you attached to the top, is there a benefit to this rather than from the front? Seems like it would help minimize the dead spot if the tie rod does not have to roll before engaging like they do from the factory. I was hoping to avoid that but it will get me rolling again.

I guess you could also do heim joint ends on the passenger side and connect both to the location for the tie rod, tie rod below and drag link above. That would minimize the distance issue but mess with later steering upgrades.

Last edited by sprdve; 01-04-2012 at 09:35 PM.
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  #23  
Old 01-08-2012
sprdve sprdve is offline
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

You know it's pretty bad when Amazon is a better parts resource than ANY of my local parts houses. I just ordered TRE's to built my tie rod and drag link. Spent $40 for four Moog ends.
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  #24  
Old 01-08-2012
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

sprdve, the second pic George posted is the preferred method, but it's high steer D44.

What TRE's did you order?

If the inverted T style /inverted Y like this, it will help keep the tie rod from rolling when steering input is applied.



But...that style can have clearance issues with the leaf spring if you don;t have high steer.


You want to make the drag link as long and flat as you can to help prevent bump steer. A shorter drag link using the block welded closer to the center will have more bump steer and can roll the tie rod, but it is a similar design to the stock IH steering.

Avoid the temptation for a bent drag link AKA "Z-link of death".
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  #25  
Old 01-08-2012
sprdve sprdve is offline
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Re: What drop pitman arm will fit?

Guido,

I ordered ES150(L,R) from what I have read they share the same taper as the scout II axles and are 3/4" bore. Since I am not spring over my angle is really minimal, hopefully that will help. In George's picture it looks like he put the block about center of the pumpkin, much like stock, should I push it further over?
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