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Better Straight then Eight

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  • Better Straight then Eight

    Hello to all , my names Greg, and I'm an Inliner. I've been afflicted since I was a teen, when I bought my first car. Which was a 72 Vega GT. Needless to say , I was rebuilding the engine within a week. There has been a sprinking of V-8's through the years, but mostly all I've owned have been inliners.

    Here's a link that you might find interesting, http://www.inliners.org/ , They don't do much with IHC though, so I'm glad this one was started. I hope we can get these old beasts a little peppier. enough for now, Greg
    If it's got a cupholder......It ain't a truck!!!

  • #2
    Greg,

    Good to see you here! Since you are no doubt the closest we have to an owner with a "daily driver inliner" , your advice will be invaluable.

    Welcome!

    Binderin',

    John
    : beer : Diamond power! : beer :
    If you have never used a search button.... DON'T POST!

    Comment


    • #3
      Hey guys, can I play? I'm missing 2 cylinders but thats ok right? John, I think I'm gonna have to shadow your quest for FI on the inline. Carl and I will be needing it soon.
      "Scout out America"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by binderbound
        Hey guys, can I play? I'm missing 2 cylinders but thats ok right? John, I think I'm gonna have to shadow your quest for FI on the inline. Carl and I will be needing it soon.
        Dan,

        AFI, who is a sponsor on this site, has already come up with a 4 cyl. F.I. setup.

        Simply click on the banner ad, and it will take you to thier site, and all the wonderful things that they do there.

        The "Fuel injection for Inline Engines" thread in the Fuel Injection forum also addresses this issue.

        The tack I was going to take involved the Holley 1 bbl TBI, but I have been rapidly talked out of it by Bill USN-1 and Norm from AFI.

        I suggest we all try and get a concrete answer from Norm on the 4 cyl setup, because it would be almost a bolt-on between the 4 and the 6 for guys with the 1904 carb base manifold.

        More as it develops,

        John
        : beer : Diamond power! : beer :
        If you have never used a search button.... DON'T POST!

        Comment


        • #5
          I built the banner ad for Norm at AFI. At the time the winner of his system he gave away at the Binder Bash went to a IH 4 cylinder owner that eventually traded it for a winch. So I don't know if he has that adapter made yet or is the same from another conversion. So we will ask?
          [CENTER]1994 Buick RoadMaSSter Estate Wagon LT1/4L60E. White and Woodgrain Sleeper...PCM 16188051 With SS/V4P/Custom Tune! WOT 12.9 AFR!

          1990 Chevy Suburban Silverado 5.7L 2wd ECM 1227747 HiWay Lean Cruise 18.5 MPG and 12.5 to 1 AFR at WOT!

          1972 IH 1210 Isky Cammed Balenced 345 4 speed PCM 16197427 Project!

          [SIZE=3][B][URL="http://www.gearhead-efi.com/"]GearHead-EFI.com[/URL] EFI Conversions and Chip Tuners![/B][/SIZE]
          [B]May be all you need to know about EFI![/B]

          and I still help local JustIH members (for fun) free! :cool: [/CENTER]

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Eagle-Mark
            I built the banner ad for Norm at AFI. At the time the winner of his system he gave away at the Binder Bash went to a IH 4 cylinder owner that eventually traded it for a winch. So I don't know if he has that adapter made yet or is the same from another conversion. So we will ask?
            I have been asking here, in the hopes for an explanation for all.

            Norm and I have been emailing a bit back and forth about distributors right now as well.

            I guess I can ask him there, but it would be better in the long run if he would explain here, as it would be "from the horses mouth" as it were :)

            I know Norm is a busy man, and answers take time.

            Binderin',

            JOhn
            : beer : Diamond power! : beer :
            If you have never used a search button.... DON'T POST!

            Comment


            • #7
              4 Cyl Fuel Injection

              Fuel Injecting a 4 cyl engine is no different than fuel injecting any other engine. It is simply a matter of matching the correct parts to the engine.

              The easiest for what is being discussed here is a throttle body from an 83 - 86 2.5L Pontiac engine. There were millions made and they are very simple. The Holley unit looks exactly like it but I believe that they make that for the 6 cyl, I am not sure on the 4 cyl.

              You can also use one of the smaller round type throttle bodies that they used on the same engine I believe starting in 86 or 87. This same throttle body was used on 1.8 - 2.5 L engines and it even has the same injector. All that GM did is increase the fuel pressure from one to the other.

              This type may not flow as much air as you want but would work, we have used both and have been successful with both. I prefer the older type since it is easier for us to service and get the parts for.

              Again for the distributors is the same thing. For these applications it may be best to use the older 2.5L distributor and modify it just like you do the V-8 distributors. You can use any GM 4 cyl distributor though remembering that you would need to modify it. Some of the GM engines went DIS in the late 80's so that is a whole different ball game.

              We can also use a tach lead filter that we have developed that will take the signal directly from the coil and trigger the ECM. You will have no spark control but still have the other advantages of fuel injection and makes it much easier and less expensive. This can be used on any of your applications to make it more simple and less expensive.

              Now all the techy types like Bill are asking what about the ECM. We have used the 7747 ECM for these as well, we just set it to 4 cyl and have copied VE tables and other stuff from other 4 cyl engines to start. We only use one of the injector drivers in the ECM and leave the other one blank.

              You can use some of the later 80's early 90's ECM's but the connectors are not as good and they use larger chips. There was such a drive to get cost out of the 4 cyl. applications that they cheapened everything they could including the connector and the ECM to try and get the cost out. We do not like to use these but can be used if desired. I just have not purchased any of those connectors and do not plan to do it.

              As far as the adapter plate I am not 100% sure. I cannot keep all of these base #'s straight in my head so I would need to see a picture and get a carb. gasket.

              At this time it is a little difficult for me to get any custom adapter plates made quickly. My dad has done all of our machining for the past several years and he suffered a massive stroke about 8 weeks ago. Currently this has left him paralyzed on his right side but he is recovering slowly.

              So if someone is going to take on the project I will need a base gasket or someone will need to make an adapter plate. I have several adapter plates that my dad made for the standard 345's before he went out of commision but this would be a special build.

              It is always a matter of matching application to application and fine tuning from there.

              I hope that this answers everyone's questions although I know there will be more. Just shoot any questions to me and I will try to help you out.

              Everyone have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

              Comment


              • #8
                From the Horses' mouth

                Norm,

                Thank you for your input.

                If you need Holley 1904 gaskets, manifolds, etc... I can supply some. If you need a 152 intake, I can get you one.

                The nice thing about going this route is it kills two birds with one stone. The 152 and the I-6 IHC engines (a good majority of the I-6 engines anyway) used the same carb.

                We have learned that the larger IHC I-6's used a 2 bbl. carburetter, and it looks like an adapter plate for that application is an off-the-shelf item at Holley.

                Okay folks, we need to send Norm some stuff.

                Volunteers? Parts may be delivered to me if you are local, and I will arrange things from there if you would like.

                Binderin',

                John
                : beer : Diamond power! : beer :
                If you have never used a search button.... DON'T POST!

                Comment


                • #9
                  I don't want to speak for Norm but I think all he will need is the gaskets from the two you want to match up. Just give which one is the top and the reference of direction of the gasket, top, fwd, bottom, aft. all referenced to the motor.
                  I'm sure the ideal would be to have the parts but I don't know if it would be needed.
                  Bill USN-1

                  COMMITED TO TEACHING PEOPLE THE "PROPER" WAY TO EFI
                  HAMILTON FUEL INJECTION
                  May be the answer to all your fuel injection needs!
                  Learn to do it right.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    John,

                    If you want a 152 Manifold I have got one for you, I will just pull it off the engine in the Rock Crawler. Let me know. Heck, I may be able to bring it on Sunday, when Dad and I drop off the KB.

                    Let me know

                    Carl

                    P.S. Doesn't dial up suck!!
                    Last edited by Carl Wiese; 12-19-2003, 06:59 PM.
                    -Just your average 1980 Turbo Diesel Scout with a Prophets Elbow, 3" straight pipe and sniffing Propane. What so strange about that?: burnout

                    1947 KB-5, flatbed dump. In need of some TLC!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      All AFI needed was gaskets when he did mine. Unless he said otherwise.
                      [CENTER]1994 Buick RoadMaSSter Estate Wagon LT1/4L60E. White and Woodgrain Sleeper...PCM 16188051 With SS/V4P/Custom Tune! WOT 12.9 AFR!

                      1990 Chevy Suburban Silverado 5.7L 2wd ECM 1227747 HiWay Lean Cruise 18.5 MPG and 12.5 to 1 AFR at WOT!

                      1972 IH 1210 Isky Cammed Balenced 345 4 speed PCM 16197427 Project!

                      [SIZE=3][B][URL="http://www.gearhead-efi.com/"]GearHead-EFI.com[/URL] EFI Conversions and Chip Tuners![/B][/SIZE]
                      [B]May be all you need to know about EFI![/B]

                      and I still help local JustIH members (for fun) free! :cool: [/CENTER]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Send a manifold

                        OK guys, and gals too if you are on this forum. Please have someone send me a 4 cyl intake manifold and gasket. I have had a few issues in the past with some clearance issues on 4 cyl engines and under this circumstance I would like to see a manifold and a gasket.

                        Now don't everyone send me a manifold, lets get some co-ordination and have one person send me an intake and flange gasket. Send to:

                        Affordable Fuel Injection
                        7575 N. Hollister Rd.
                        Elsie, MI 48831
                        Att: Norm

                        I am sending a distributor to Mark Young so that he can have his contacts build a converted distributor for one of these units as well.

                        This will be fun and I am sure who ever will install it will be very pleased with the smooth performance.

                        To all have a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Make sure that you all visit family and friends over this time and tell everyone that you care for that you love them. Give your kids a big hug and never forget the reason for the Season.

                        Do not forget all of those who fight to keep us free and able to have a Christmas holiday and the freedom to have these kind of discussions. Say an extra prayer for those who cannot be home with their families because they are protecting us and send care packages to those that you may know.

                        God Bless and may everyone have a great and prosperous 2004.

                        Norm

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Amen !
                          [CENTER]1994 Buick RoadMaSSter Estate Wagon LT1/4L60E. White and Woodgrain Sleeper...PCM 16188051 With SS/V4P/Custom Tune! WOT 12.9 AFR!

                          1990 Chevy Suburban Silverado 5.7L 2wd ECM 1227747 HiWay Lean Cruise 18.5 MPG and 12.5 to 1 AFR at WOT!

                          1972 IH 1210 Isky Cammed Balenced 345 4 speed PCM 16197427 Project!

                          [SIZE=3][B][URL="http://www.gearhead-efi.com/"]GearHead-EFI.com[/URL] EFI Conversions and Chip Tuners![/B][/SIZE]
                          [B]May be all you need to know about EFI![/B]

                          and I still help local JustIH members (for fun) free! :cool: [/CENTER]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I didn't see it mentioned here so...

                            What about the difference between the 152 carb base and the 196 carb base? I know the 196 has a larger bore and mounting flange than the 152. Are we sure the 152 is the one to pattern vs the 196(as far as adaptability to I-6 use)?

                            It would seem odd that the 196 needed a larger carb than the 152 but the 220/240/264 didn't. But perhaps it's the rpm capability difference between the two engines(IH 4cyl/ IH 6cyl) that explains this.

                            Ken

                            Oh, and while my '55 Pontiac has a V8, '54 Pontiacs(and earlier) were equipped with an engine that is both STRAIGHT and EIGHT...
                            Last edited by IHWillys; 12-30-2003, 06:57 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              OK.

                              For a reference point, my '70 196 has the large bore.

                              Ken

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