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  • 6.9 IDI to IH T18

    My 6x6 PROJECT is about to kick off. A recent purchase involving an F250 with the IH 7.3 got me thinking about powering the PROJECT with a diesel once more. Found a 6.9 that just might do the job as good or better than the 304 I'll be using otherwise. Will the 6.9 be a direct bolt-on to the IH T18s?

    I have 2 T18s to chose from. A LONG one already behind a 304 paired to a D20 inside a rotten 800A and a shorty T18 with the IH bell.
    I'm looking at some not insignificant engine bay work anyway since the rolling body I have to work with is either a late 80 or VERY early 800.
    The 3 Rules of a mislabeling a Scout:
    Jeep...blasphemy.
    Bronco...sacrilege.
    Blazer...isn't 1 copycat enough?

  • #2
    With the correct bellhousing, you probably could bolt up the large-input-shaft T18 to the 6.9.

    The short-input-shaft T18 will not bolt up to the 6.9, nor would you want to. It has value on its own, and if you aren't going to use it, sell it to someone for a 4-cylinder Scout 80/800.

    I would want a five-speed behind the 6.9. Should be able to find one from a Ford pickup without too much effort. Another reason would be a synchro first gear, which a T18 doesn't have.


    RR
    Lil Red Bus
    1967 800

    Comment


    • #3
      A 5sp is what I'm thinking. Picked up a 91 F250 w/ the IH 7.3 & ZF5. BUT that truck is NOT to be a donor as it will see use for what it is.

      My only conundrum is that I already have about everything I need to make the 304//T18 (either one depends on what engine placement I use)//D20...but got the hair up my arse to consider a diesel which carries its own rather significant advantages...only REAL disadvantage is the extra cost to get the setup in place. Could still use the D20 but would need to get the 400$ adapter kit for the ZF5.

      The 6.9 I found is in pieces but rebuildable and comes with the option of including a C6 + associated drivers offset case (which won't do me any good w/o changing the front axle). Not keen on putting an auto in for numerous reasons. Either 500 for all or 200 for just the engine. If had it all could just sell the trans//case but thing is coming up with that cash. MIGHT proceed with the 304 install but take the measure of making the firewall mods into a doghouse of enough size to ensure the 6.9 could fit at a later date. OR maybe find someone who has a ZF5 that needs a shorty T18 and trade across.
      The 3 Rules of a mislabeling a Scout:
      Jeep...blasphemy.
      Bronco...sacrilege.
      Blazer...isn't 1 copycat enough?

      Comment


      • #4
        I have my build thread over on BP ?Tip? scout 800 build. You really need to pick your direction before you start. I would have great difficulty putting a T-18 behind a big diesel, especially when a better manual is available. An engine swap is surprisingly expensive to do so the thought that you are going to do it, then just do it again in a little while is silly. You are likely at the stage where you think ?You dont know what You are talking about, I am doing all the work it wont be that expensive stage.? Just adding a different radiator and one driveshaft and you can easily be up to a grand. Add in an adapter of some sort for $700. You still havent even thought about motor mounts, belts pulleys, fans, carbs, hoses, So pick a direction you like and stick with it. Have about 3 grand that you can spend without a second thought, now you have a starting point.

        As far as motors, to me a used motor is a core. I have been bit by every used motor I have dealt with. Pull it apart, check cylinders, bearing clearances, drop the heads off for a true up and valve job. Now you are off to a good start...
        Walker
        '67 scout 800
        '67 Chevy C-10

        Comment


        • #5
          Everything is still preliminary. Planning only. Direction depends on what I can get hold of. Have a number of build threads saved for reference. WHEN It reaches the stage of engine install (regardless of route) I'll be using templates made with slightly greater dimensions to assist to minimize in//out of heavy stuff. Looked up the dimension of the 6.9//7.3 & measured what I could get to on the truck. Will be tight but doable. A few in broader than the 304...length is more substantial. If the idea was to shove a PS in like I know of another doing....it wouldn't happen as powerstrokes are significantly larger than the earlier mechanical IHs.

          The idea of a T18 was brought up only because it is what I have on hand. So? Just thought I'd ask. But the OD 5speed would be perfect with the diesel route.

          I HAVE a complete//running 304//long-T18//D20 that was planned to go in. Runs smooth. Only obvious issue is carb float is stuck open. If it went in then it would be deciding on which T18...depending on if I went with the stock I4 placement or not. This is steering gear dictated only. Firewall changes would be matters of degree. Radiator support would be a DO or NOT TO DO.

          Then the Diesel-Bug hit me in the head like a runaway dump truck. Can thank that p/u purchase for THAT one. ORIGINAL plan was to be a diesel in the first place anyway LONG before I picked up that rolling drivetrain 800A for 100$ from a local. Should have had my head examined as he also had a very good condition 800 w/ 345 (or supposedly...never looked). Would've been 1500$ for both. Like an idiot I didn't as that GOOD 800 would have wholly replaced my beater 62.

          After picking up a rolling 80//800 (apparently had the turbo 152...long gone when I got hold of it) was going to go the 304 route....get that mess out of the way then deal with the body//frame. As it stands now I'll end up starting there first. This gives me time anyway to come to a final powerplant decision. Even then I'm going to be a juggling act. So I have 2 matched rear axles (dimensions) I'll be having to pull the open one (rear is being kept open for reasons associated with steering) from my running 62 S80 BUT it will be receiving a late 70s Ford D44...couple inches more total width + gear change (sadly it will require a thick gear (4.30 since I've not found thick 4.27) which is slightly less $$ than a carrier change), backplate swap, & spring perch since its SOA instead of SUA.

          The notion of the 304 going in the later changing it out occurred to me but was just as quickly thrown aside for the exact reason of being "silly". I'd much rather have the one on hand I want to use and only have to do the necessary mods once. Already looked up the ZF5 to D20 case which runs around 400$.

          Unfortunately the V8 800A I have whose engine bay would make the job easier is an almost complete write off save for some sheet metal I'll need to fill in the gap when the body mods are done as well as the frame. All I have to currently work with is a base to build off of is a early 800. The only viable lead I had for a GOOD 800 I had went out the window since I missed contacting the yard about it by a month. Had a trade deal all set that the owner would certainly have taken too. Were that to have worked out...since it already had a rebuilt motor...I'd only be looking at completing engine bay assembly then straight to body changes. Scout pickings in my parts are...extremely poor at absolute best. Have an excellent lead on a SII and while nice is not suitable to my needs.

          Worst case...say if I manage to get an engine and DON'T go with it if affordable leads on a transmission don't work out...got truck spares. Am well aware it won't be cheap to go the diesel route. Staying the gasser route would keep costs down ALOT. That route could be done on the proverbial cheap as far as power plant & getting it all in goes. Have a good 80% of what's needed already to make that much work. Making the drivetrain all work is what would eat me alive. Just making the disconnect for the REAR not MAIN drive axle will set me back 100+ in parts. In the end this whole thing will be cleaned up but will never be nor is planned to be anything but utilitarian.

          "Ambitious. (Otherwise it would be unworthy of the SkunkWerks). <---- Understatement.
          Straight forward and fairly simple." <---- Deliberate oxy-moron statement.
          Last edited by RuralTowner; 1 week ago.
          The 3 Rules of a mislabeling a Scout:
          Jeep...blasphemy.
          Bronco...sacrilege.
          Blazer...isn't 1 copycat enough?

          Comment


          • #6
            The 4 banger tranny will not hold up to v8 power, input shaft is too small. Guido has a 7.3 conversion over on BP, pretty impressive! Personally, an ih v8 makes plenty of power for a scout, so only do a diesel if you are planning on a gnarly rock crawler with big axles.

            here is my swap on BP. http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/i...-build.132168/
            it performs very well. We just had our Rendezvous a few weeks ago. Though mine has only limited lift and 30? tires it can outdo many of the bigger SIIs that have big tires and huge lifts. The reason is the T-19 wide tranny and Dana 300 T-case. I also put a PowRlok in front and a detroit locker (a real detroit, not one of those spirally geared LSDs) in the rear. With that combo in low gear I was able to simply walk up obstacles that caused some bigger trucks to back up and take the bypass. If you do go with the IH v8 conversion read up on mine. I did it in a 3 day weekend. There is very little info on this conversion. I think it is too involved for the average wrench. The guys that do this kind of thing usually put in an SBC or a 4/6 cylinder inline diesel. I made two mistakes on mine that I have fought with since. I put the motor as far back as it would go, but did not notch the drivers side firewall. This has given me fan clearance issues. Another two inches would have been nice. The other issue is that I put in a 24?x19?ford radiator, think late 60s v8 mustang. It does not have sufficient capacity for the 345. I am looking at changing to a 28?x19? radiator. I may need to add an additional electric fan as the 16? mechanical does not pull enough air and I have no more room for a bigger fan.
            Walker
            '67 scout 800
            '67 Chevy C-10

            Comment


            • #7
              Haven't seen that guy's build. Will look into it.

              Saying the short T18 is no good behind the 304?

              I know the T90 has been used behind SBC 350 which put out more HP and TOP END torque than our SVs. Reason I consider this is since I have unhindered firewall access...and I'll need to nab the pedal assy from the 800A since the clutch pedal in the roller is missing...I'd have a slightly better time with a rearwards mounting. No having to make steering gear changes.

              This thing would be too massive due to the extra length to be a crawler at least in the conventional sense. Would be meant for extreme hard trail...basically anything the the T-All & similar could do and more as it would have superior traction...and lighter ground pressure. Really short ravines would be a problem...but that's what a roller poking halfway out the front bumper will be for. The 6-wheeler my dad put together has one...long ago during a run in the dark he went off a ravine with it and it was the only thing that kept him from going end over. Engine mounts broke and so destroyed the radiator...had to get towed home...but it did it's job.

              Have already decided that IF I were to go the diesel route I'd stick with the trans w/ OD meant to go behind one. That OD would certainly boost driveability & the ZF5 dimensions make it small enough to work with. Otherwise economy (driving only since I KNOW I'd never drive it enough for it to "pay for itself") & low end grunt is all I'd be after. Radiator would be as big as I could fit in whatever room there is.
              The big axles DID occur to me. Particularly if that tow yard I checked out had a 4x4 & 4x2 or another 4x to snag everything out of cheap...could get entire rigs for 350//ea. Would be one mean SOB with a trio of 8-lug beasts under it.

              Right now I'm in the middle of trying to get rid of excess vehicles to free up the funds for this. Before I can start anyway need to do that axle juggle. Dernitall if an SII axle FINALLY showed up in Phoenix but ofc it's AFTER I already have a FERD D44. Oh well. It's a locking type and I have a set of used but very good condition THICK 4.30 OEM DANA gears to go in it.
              Last edited by RuralTowner; 4 days ago.
              The 3 Rules of a mislabeling a Scout:
              Jeep...blasphemy.
              Bronco...sacrilege.
              Blazer...isn't 1 copycat enough?

              Comment


              • #8
                I didn’t realize you were here in Phoenix. Did you make it up to Rendezvous? What part of town are you in? I am north of carefree hwy a few miles. Let me know if you find yourself out this way.

                If your tranny has the pancake bellhousing do not use it behind a v8.
                Walker
                '67 scout 800
                '67 Chevy C-10

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm actually about 130mi west of Phoenix. About 10mi North of Hwy60 on SR72.

                  Nope didn't make it to the Rendezvous. My running 62 wouldn't like the freeway...atm has bad enough time getting to 55. After sitting 1 too many times for a long time turned out that my points (which I NEVER touched during ownership) finally had it. New pts//condensor (the separated sort) & can't seem to get the dwell anywhere near the 72deg w/o dying. Ran better with the old worn out unipoint setup which I might go back to.

                  Could have sworn the short T18 would be fine behind the V8 since more than a few have used the T90 behind them & the input shaft size is the same. Unless this is meant at least in part because of the different clutch discs. If still not recommended...oh well. Got it with intent to eventually replace the tired T90 in my 62 that likes to pop out of 2nd gear if coasting or at very low speed. Would LOVE to have a 196 to go in front of it though to then put in.
                  The 3 Rules of a mislabeling a Scout:
                  Jeep...blasphemy.
                  Bronco...sacrilege.
                  Blazer...isn't 1 copycat enough?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    RuralTowner, on a short-shaft T18, the input shaft is physically smaller and shorter than the "regular" T18's. The bellhousing used for a short-shaft T18 is different than the V8 bellhousing. If you have the correct bellhousing to mate your short-shaft T18 to a Scout 4-cyl application, then put it into your '62 and enjoy it there.
                    Lil Red Bus
                    1967 800

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Just making sure I understood fully.
                      The 3 Rules of a mislabeling a Scout:
                      Jeep...blasphemy.
                      Bronco...sacrilege.
                      Blazer...isn't 1 copycat enough?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RuralTowner View Post
                        I'm actually about 130mi west of Phoenix. About 10mi North of Hwy60 on SR72.

                        Nope didn't make it to the Rendezvous. My running 62 wouldn't like the freeway...atm has bad enough time getting to 55. After sitting 1 too many times for a long time turned out that my points (which I NEVER touched during ownership) finally had it. New pts//condensor (the separated sort) & can't seem to get the dwell anywhere near the 72deg w/o dying. Ran better with the old worn out unipoint setup which I might go back to.

                        Could have sworn the short T18 would be fine behind the V8 since more than a few have used the T90 behind them & the input shaft size is the same. Unless this is meant at least in part because of the different clutch discs. If still not recommended...oh well. Got it with intent to eventually replace the tired T90 in my 62 that likes to pop out of 2nd gear if coasting or at very low speed. Would LOVE to have a 196 to go in front of it though to then put in.


                        Sounds like your are out near Bousse. If you can make it to some Sonora Desert Scouts events and get to know some of the guys it makes sourcing parts a lot easier.
                        Walker
                        '67 scout 800
                        '67 Chevy C-10

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You've been out this way before then...probably drove right by my place then. I AM by Bouse. About 7mi East of it.

                          IF I can have the 6 wheeler done this year...and have a flatbed...might make the next nearby Rendezvous as a duo...the fusion build & the 62 finally making a trip at 1000s of mpg (only fuel spent would be evaporation). If didn't cost an arm & a leg to drive it (and wholly trusted it for a looooong drive and NEVER pass a gas station) I'd bring BOTH behind the Loadstar. Of course that would require managing to load the 62 on the 12ft (THAT SURE ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN) bed while hauling the 6x to make it a Trio affair. Bah the Road Cone (oxidized but otherwise bright orange cab) isn't a Scout so the former would have to do.
                          Last edited by RuralTowner; 2 days ago.
                          The 3 Rules of a mislabeling a Scout:
                          Jeep...blasphemy.
                          Bronco...sacrilege.
                          Blazer...isn't 1 copycat enough?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I used to have to inspect the natural gas system over in Lincoln Ranch every year, plus everything else between Parker and Wickenburg. Lots of driving to the middle of nowhere. It was pretty cool driving through dry desert and cresting the hill at Lincoln ranch and seeing all the green along the Bill Williams river.
                            Walker
                            '67 scout 800
                            '67 Chevy C-10

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I used to stop in Hope every now and then. It always reminded me of something my mother said if we were wishing for something. ?Hope in one hand, and s@#t in the other and see which one fills up first?. I told my brother one day that there I could grab a handful of dirt and actually have Hope in one hand!
                              Walker
                              '67 scout 800
                              '67 Chevy C-10

                              Comment

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