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  • no fire in ignition

    I have a 78 Scout II that I have had for several years and drove daily. It has not been drove for 2 years, and I decided to drive it again. I put a new battery in, primed the carb with gas and she fired right up! Unfortunatly, that was the last time. I have replaced the entire ignition components,checked and repaired all my electrical connections, and still nothing! It has the gold box ignition system,which I've heard alot of bad things about. I would really appreciate some insight on a simple and inexpensive fix for my problem.
    Rod:confused:

  • #2
    Rod,

    Napa has a computer that can check the gold box. Let us know what happens after you get the box checked.

    Brian
    Brian Tucker
    Bennett, CO

    Comment


    • #3
      Also a couple of easy diagnostics tests would help.
      Using a test light turn the key on and check the positive side of the coil for power. Then get someone to crank the engine over while checking the negative side and the test light should blink on and off. If not the gold box is probably the culprit.
      While you were checking things did you check to see if your bulkhead connector was secure? There are two of them coming out of the firewall and sometimes they get bumped or loosen up losing power to some or all components.
      [CENTER]1994 Buick RoadMaSSter Estate Wagon LT1/4L60E. White and Woodgrain Sleeper...PCM 16188051 With SS/V4P/Custom Tune! WOT 12.9 AFR!

      1990 Chevy Suburban Silverado 5.7L 2wd ECM 1227747 HiWay Lean Cruise 18.5 MPG and 12.5 to 1 AFR at WOT!

      1972 IH 1210 Isky Cammed Balenced 345 4 speed PCM 16197427 Project!

      [SIZE=3][B][URL="http://www.gearhead-efi.com/"]GearHead-EFI.com[/URL] EFI Conversions and Chip Tuners![/B][/SIZE]
      [B]May be all you need to know about EFI![/B]

      and I still help local JustIH members (for fun) free! :cool: [/CENTER]

      Comment


      • #4
        no fire in ignition

        :confused: Brian, I have taken the box to NAPA twice just to double check it. They did short and long test on it and said it was fine. I even talked to a guy in Springfield, OH on the phone and he said that sometimes the box will test good, but swore it was still bad, so I bought a brand new one and it still has no fire.
        Like Mark suggested, I checked ALL of my wiring connections, even into the firewall,but still no fire.
        I have a good friend, and a heck of a mechanic, and it's even got him stooped!! He does strongly suggest that I bought a bad pick-up coil in the distributor , but I don't know if there is any way to test a pick-up coil to tell if it's good or not. Any insight on this fellas?
        The motor (345) turns over fine, I'm getting power through the firewall, and I have a new battery, ignition switch,coil, pick-up coil,and gold box. The bad thing is here in KY where I bought the pick-up coil is they won't give money back on electrical parts purchase! That part cost me around $65.00 so I sure would appreciate anyone who has had a similar problem to help me out.
        Thanks for your time,
        Rod in KY

        Comment


        • #5
          What happens when you remove the coil wire and try to start the truck? Do you have spark.

          I think you may have a loose wire somewhere.

          Brian
          Brian Tucker
          Bennett, CO

          Comment


          • #6
            The pick up coil you mention is that inside the distributor?
            The manual names it as a trigger wheel sensor and from previous experience with a gold box it is very temperamental about it's gap.
            The manual calls for .008 air gap.

            Back to Brian's question have you pulled the coil wire and held it close to ground while someone cranks the engine over? Any spark? Weak spark? I think you have but just checking.
            Also just because you have new parts doesn't mean they are good. We have all had non operational new parts.
            [CENTER]1994 Buick RoadMaSSter Estate Wagon LT1/4L60E. White and Woodgrain Sleeper...PCM 16188051 With SS/V4P/Custom Tune! WOT 12.9 AFR!

            1990 Chevy Suburban Silverado 5.7L 2wd ECM 1227747 HiWay Lean Cruise 18.5 MPG and 12.5 to 1 AFR at WOT!

            1972 IH 1210 Isky Cammed Balenced 345 4 speed PCM 16197427 Project!

            [SIZE=3][B][URL="http://www.gearhead-efi.com/"]GearHead-EFI.com[/URL] EFI Conversions and Chip Tuners![/B][/SIZE]
            [B]May be all you need to know about EFI![/B]

            and I still help local JustIH members (for fun) free! :cool: [/CENTER]

            Comment


            • #7
              no fire in ignition

              Mark and Brian, we have pulled the coil wire off and the only time I get a spark is when I turn the key back almost in the off position; just one little spark and that's it.
              Mark, it is inside the distributor, and I have set the gap between it and the trigger wheel to specs, but still nothing.
              I wish I knew someone close with the same setup, then I could just swap pick-up coils to see if mine is bad.
              Like you said Mark, we all have gotten a bad part or two in the past, so I guess I'll try another one and if it don't work, back to the ol' drawin' board.
              Well, I really do appreciate the quick replies you all have given me, and look forward to hearing from any of you all.
              I'll be sure and let you all know what happens.
              If you all don't hear from me in a few days, my wife is going to be switching internet services, so I'll have to redo my membership entry.
              Thanks
              Rod

              Comment


              • #8
                They won't give your money back on the electrical pick-up but they will give you another one if it's bad.
                I have one here you can have send an address.

                A little spark when you turn the key off?
                Hmmmm!
                There is a switch on the lower steering column, under the dash that turns on the power when you turn on the key. It feeds the power to your ignition. Easy way to check without taking stuff apart is the lower bulkhead connector top row right side wire. Check that to make sure you have power all the time while the key is on or cranking.
                [CENTER]1994 Buick RoadMaSSter Estate Wagon LT1/4L60E. White and Woodgrain Sleeper...PCM 16188051 With SS/V4P/Custom Tune! WOT 12.9 AFR!

                1990 Chevy Suburban Silverado 5.7L 2wd ECM 1227747 HiWay Lean Cruise 18.5 MPG and 12.5 to 1 AFR at WOT!

                1972 IH 1210 Isky Cammed Balenced 345 4 speed PCM 16197427 Project!

                [SIZE=3][B][URL="http://www.gearhead-efi.com/"]GearHead-EFI.com[/URL] EFI Conversions and Chip Tuners![/B][/SIZE]
                [B]May be all you need to know about EFI![/B]

                and I still help local JustIH members (for fun) free! :cool: [/CENTER]

                Comment


                • #9
                  no fire in ignition

                  Mark, the switch at the bottom of the steering column you are talking about, is it a small metal box with points inside?, if it is, I have also replaced it, you can put your hand on it when you crank the motor and feel and hear it clicking.
                  I'll double check that wire you are talking about on the firewall,but the only bad thing is my truck is at my farm about 70 miles away and with my new shift at work I can only get down there on the weekends. Now that I have found this awesome website, I probably will pull it where I'm at now, so I can get it on the move again.
                  Mark, I'll send you a address on your E-mail. And if it works I'll be glad to send you a check or owe you a favor for it.
                  Thanks again
                  Rod

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Mark, the switch at the bottom of the steering column you are talking about, is it a small metal box with points inside?, if it is, I have also replaced it, you can put your hand on it when you crank the motor and feel and hear it clicking.
                    Glad you have one, where did you get it I need one?

                    I'll double check that wire you are talking about on the firewall,but the only bad thing is my truck is at my farm about 70 miles away and with my new shift at work I can only get down there on the weekends.
                    Thats a long way to go for repairs... Hope it's running when you bring it back.

                    Now that I have found this awesome website, I probably will pull it where I'm at now, so I can get it on the move again.
                    I like the part about the awesome website!

                    Mark, I'll send you a address on your E-mail. And if it works I'll be glad to send you a check or owe you a favor for it.
                    Pass it on !
                    [CENTER]1994 Buick RoadMaSSter Estate Wagon LT1/4L60E. White and Woodgrain Sleeper...PCM 16188051 With SS/V4P/Custom Tune! WOT 12.9 AFR!

                    1990 Chevy Suburban Silverado 5.7L 2wd ECM 1227747 HiWay Lean Cruise 18.5 MPG and 12.5 to 1 AFR at WOT!

                    1972 IH 1210 Isky Cammed Balenced 345 4 speed PCM 16197427 Project!

                    [SIZE=3][B][URL="http://www.gearhead-efi.com/"]GearHead-EFI.com[/URL] EFI Conversions and Chip Tuners![/B][/SIZE]
                    [B]May be all you need to know about EFI![/B]

                    and I still help local JustIH members (for fun) free! :cool: [/CENTER]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      no fire in ignition

                      Mark, I want to say I got that part at NAPA, but it's been several years ago if ya know what I mean. I took the old one with me and they looked it up in a catalog and matched it up that way.
                      When I get down to the farm, I'll check it out and see if there is a part number to go by and if not I'll check around and see if I can have a little bit of good luck again! If I remember correct, doesn't it have a two or three prong electrical plug-in on it, with two or three wires? I think it's three but not sure. Well, gotta go to work here shortly, talk at ya later.
                      Rod

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        no fire in ignition

                        Hey Mark,
                        I had told you that I had replaced that little box under the bottom of the steering column, (ignition relay?) well my buddy informed me that I didn't and that we had taken it apart just to see what the heck it was and what it did! He was right! When I got down to our place where the Scout is I took it off and brought it home with me. No luck yet, but don't count me out. There is a place here called Auto Electric and they have a whole lot of hard to find electrical parts, mostly GM,but I will try them. Do you know of any GM auto that has this similar set up? If you do, what year?
                        The reason I ask is they like you to have a make and model of GM product to look it up. My cousin is going to haul my Scout back home in a couple of weeks, so hopefully, I'll be able to spend some time working on it and getting if running again.
                        Well, talk at ya later!!
                        Rod

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          dont know if you ever solved your problem but

                          somewhere in my hack by PO wiring in the scout i was getting major voltage drop to the coil down to varying between 8.5+9.5 volts & would not fire the 345 up

                          i ran a toggled switch from the battery to the dash and back out to the coil-- i used 10 gauge wire--thsi for sure did not address the real issue --but it got my scout running-- jsut remeber the coil will stay hot when you turn off the key you will need to "kill" teh toggle switch as well to shut off the rig

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            NO fire

                            If your positive coil wire is getting power and all else fails you can get a points dist. for cheap anywhere on the net or you can go with pertronix conv. 100$, with my gold box I tried everything twice no luck eventully found out it was pickup inside dist. I just bought a used prestolite dist. and has worked fine for five years and cost less then the pickup in the dist. Just shootin possibillites good luck and dont give up.
                            1980 Traveler 304-727,31s on 4" SUA
                            1972 Travelall 392-727 1110 SLOWLY being restored

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              rod when you replaced ignition parts did you replace the coil if so it takes a coil with 3 ohms of resitance if you replaced it with one that was not for a scout with factory ignition it will burn the "gold box" there are numerous suppliers for alternate ignition systems check with super scout specialist or anything scout d and c extreme just did a write up on a scout named snoopy at the end they replaced the ignition but i dont remember what they used you can go to there web site DandC Extreme.com

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