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  • Dana 60 narrowed for Scout II ?

    I'm trying to find a way to do a Dana 60 rear axle shortened but still use five lug axles. I can't afford the racing axles and don't think I need them. Still want to use the Scout II axles but I would like to end up with a larger or double bearings as well.

    My purpose for this is towing not severe off roading. My truck will off road farther then I should go.

    The Dana 60 housing, ring an pinion are just what's needed. Wonder if LockRight has a locker for the Dana 60 with the Scout II axle size?

    I've seen axle bearing retainers for the ends (I think) that you could purchase and weld on after cutting the ends off the housing. Scout II uses the Timken SET 10 bearing and there is also a SET 20 which may increase the wheel bearing strength.

    I've also thought about machining the insides of a Scout II Dana 44 axle bearings so that two could be used?
    Looks like two would press on the axle?
    Now it will be lubed with gear oil but which way would the bearing face? The SET 10 has a slight taper? Some other replacements have just a straight cut roller?

    What do ya think?
    [CENTER]1994 Buick RoadMaSSter Estate Wagon LT1/4L60E. White and Woodgrain Sleeper...PCM 16188051 With SS/V4P/Custom Tune! WOT 12.9 AFR!

    1990 Chevy Suburban Silverado 5.7L 2wd ECM 1227747 HiWay Lean Cruise 18.5 MPG and 12.5 to 1 AFR at WOT!

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    [SIZE=3][B][URL="http://www.gearhead-efi.com/"]GearHead-EFI.com[/URL] EFI Conversions and Chip Tuners![/B][/SIZE]
    [B]May be all you need to know about EFI![/B]

    and I still help local JustIH members (for fun) free! :cool: [/CENTER]

  • #2
    Sounds like a challenge!

    I have no answers for ya but I am reading up and gathering info on narrowing a D60 front to scout 2 width. Does not seem to be a big ordeal, just getting the axles shortened and reslpined will be the only exspense. Then its figuring out what springs to run and then the whole steering issue, drive shaft, etc.

    Look into older (70's) chrysler/dodge performance cars as I think some of the bigger engine cars run 5 lug bolt pattern D60's. Don't know if it was a match to the 5 on 51/2 that the scout runs though.

    I want to scrounge up a FF D60 rear to put in my 800 instead of the donor truck 14 bolt as there is more aftermarket stuff for them as appossed to the 14 bolts.

    Wish ya luck and keep us informed on your findings.

    I got my "package" yesterday. Thanks!!!! Payment should get on its way sometime this week. Thanks again!!!
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    My "Ruedh"
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    • #3
      i just bought a 1010 two wheel drive for the motor (body is less than my skill will handle) an added plus is the dana 60 with the 5 bolt ends,,,,,seems somewheres i read that ih used 44 ends and brg sizes on these rears...if that is so, i should be able to shorten it to scout width and use stock scout 44 axles!....body tag says it is a locker, we will see......bobn

      Comment


      • #4
        ya know, i like the sound of the "double bearing" idea. i bet it would work wonderful if you used the set 10 bearings and had the cones of the inner races opposite each other - that would balance out the load on each bearing very nicely.
        wonder how much machining would be involved to do that......

        might have to look into it myself...
        Michael Meyer A.S.E. Certified
        Master Automobile Technician
        Owner: Meyer Technology
        Computer and Small Engine/Car/Truck Repair/Carburator Rebuilding
        77 IH Scout Traveler Midas
        pictures at:www.mtmeyer.com

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        • #5
          I don't know about hauling a whole axle to a machine shop but I'm sure you could.

          But if you:
          1. Took a Dana 60 and cut the housing down to size by cutting off the spindles.
          2. Cut the axle ends off the Dana 44 which includes the wheel bearing retainer. This would be easy for a machine shop to deal with. Have it machined to except 2 rear axle bearings.
          3. Weld the two together.
          4. Lets say the gearing was correct you could install like a LockRight locker in the original carrier and save on the set up. Or if you need gears just install them with a locker.

          You would still need to weld on the spring perches properly. It could still use the standard drum brake or be upgraded.

          End up with the Dana 60 strength at the ring and pinion. Dual rear wheel bearings. Very low cost!!!
          [CENTER]1994 Buick RoadMaSSter Estate Wagon LT1/4L60E. White and Woodgrain Sleeper...PCM 16188051 With SS/V4P/Custom Tune! WOT 12.9 AFR!

          1990 Chevy Suburban Silverado 5.7L 2wd ECM 1227747 HiWay Lean Cruise 18.5 MPG and 12.5 to 1 AFR at WOT!

          1972 IH 1210 Isky Cammed Balenced 345 4 speed PCM 16197427 Project!

          [SIZE=3][B][URL="http://www.gearhead-efi.com/"]GearHead-EFI.com[/URL] EFI Conversions and Chip Tuners![/B][/SIZE]
          [B]May be all you need to know about EFI![/B]

          and I still help local JustIH members (for fun) free! :cool: [/CENTER]

          Comment


          • #6
            dana 60

            Hey Mark the 60 in the rear of my SS is a 1/2 ton 5 on 5 1/2 with scout II axle shafts. It isn't the double bearing, but I had Dutchman Tool in Portland narrow the housing to run the stock shafts. I haven't broken it yet!
            Tow strap? : histeric

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            • #7
              Are the Dana 60 five lug, 5 on 5 1/2 axles the same wheel bearing as the Scout Dana 44?
              [CENTER]1994 Buick RoadMaSSter Estate Wagon LT1/4L60E. White and Woodgrain Sleeper...PCM 16188051 With SS/V4P/Custom Tune! WOT 12.9 AFR!

              1990 Chevy Suburban Silverado 5.7L 2wd ECM 1227747 HiWay Lean Cruise 18.5 MPG and 12.5 to 1 AFR at WOT!

              1972 IH 1210 Isky Cammed Balenced 345 4 speed PCM 16197427 Project!

              [SIZE=3][B][URL="http://www.gearhead-efi.com/"]GearHead-EFI.com[/URL] EFI Conversions and Chip Tuners![/B][/SIZE]
              [B]May be all you need to know about EFI![/B]

              and I still help local JustIH members (for fun) free! :cool: [/CENTER]

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Eagle-Mark
                Are the Dana 60 five lug, 5 on 5 1/2 axles the same wheel bearing as the Scout Dana 44?
                I believe the axles you're talking about all use the same wheelbearings.

                The typical 5 on 5.5 Dana 60-2 from a Travelall or pickup use 30sp 1.31" diameter axle shafts, the same as a Scout II. Same SF design and same wheel bearings.

                In a truck, IH rated the Dana 44 full width rear end at 3500lbs. The Dana 60-2 SF? 3700lbs weight capacity.

                Willie Worthy built a Dana 60-2 by taking a Dana 60, chopping the spindles off, then taking a Dana 44, cutting the tubes off at the diff, and then turning the tubes down on a lathe until they were a tight press fit into the Dana 60 axle tubes.

                He then pressed the whole thing together.

                Voila. SF Dana 60-2. He was careful to machine a "step" into the D44 tubes such that when it was all pressed together and the "step" area welded up, the whole assembly took stock Scout II Dana 44 axle shafts.

                The rear end ended up being 1-2" wider than a stock SII rear end (thanks to the larger "pig" on the Dana 60).

                I don't remember if he used an alignment bar and pucks, which *should* be used.

                The simpler route is to buy some weld-on Set-10 or Set 20 SF housing ends, cut the Dana 60 spindles off, put the new bearing ends in place, then mount up the special alignment bar and pucks and weld it together - again, still aiming for stock SII D44 axle shaft lengths.

                The alignment bar really should be used, otherwise you may weld the thing back together a little warped/bent (who's to say it isn't already?) and that'll add some not-good preload to the wheel bearings and lead to premature failure (like Pat Decker did after he bent his rear '44 and continued to run it.. on ONE short trip and barely made it home).

                IMO, the Dana 60-2 SF rear end doesn't buy much for the effort.

                The Dana 60 FF is rated to 5500lbs. Now that's a big improvement over 3500 or 3700lbs.

                Heck, how much more will a Dana 60-2 weigh over a D44? It'll weigh more, but it will be less than the 200lbs rating difference.. but you're gaining even less than 200lbs of capacity at the end of the day.

                Lockright and Detroit (ARB, and others) make units to fit a Dana 60 that'll take stock SII Dana 44 30sp 1.31" axle shafts.. since most D60 rears use the same setup. D60 fronts are 1.5"/35sp.


                As for using two wheel bearings side by side.. you'll have a hard time getting the axle into the housing (and back out), and I don't think you actually buy yourself anything, because the bearings are still too close together, and on only one side of the wheel flange, so you're still relying on your carrier bearings as part of your "wheel bearing" assembly.

                You're still susceptible to overloading the rear end and overheating the axle bearings, still susceptible to having the axle eject from the housing when the bearing fails.. though at least the loads are distributed across a wider "bearing" area, which would be a plus. I think the outer will still take the brunt of the abuse.

                Now, a narrowed 8-lug Dana 60 FF in the rear of a SII for towing? You betcha. Full-floater weight capacity and reliability. Plus the bigger brakes (and you can upgrade the front to run 8-lug Chevy D44/10-bolt hardware for bigger brakes there, too).

                YMMV, of course, but I won't go back to towing with a SF rear axle..
                Last edited by Tom Mandera; 11-19-2003, 12:24 PM.

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                • #9
                  Hey Tom! I was wondering when you were going to say something.

                  Congratulations on the Marriage.

                  That's a lot of information and it all makes sense. I was just trying to get an upgrade a little cheaper than going all eight lug. Just bought a new set of fifteen tires. Friend gave me a set of nice white spokes that I painted anyway. Didn't want to do all that work, you know the easy way out? It would catch up to me I know.

                  I agree an eight lug full floater is a much better design for, well heavy work. But I did have one axle with hub and wheel come out the side of a 72 Chevy 3/4 pickup with a service box and a cab over camper. So that rear wheel bearing failure is still an option with the full floater. Does help the broken axle scenario.

                  I think c-clip axles may be a safer design for rear wheel bearing failure.

                  We've been towing a couple of summers ( one fun and one in Seattle for surgery last summer) and no problems with the Scout Dana 44 rear axle with a lockright and a Ford Dana 44 cover which is thicker and raises the gear oil to proper levels for wheel bearings. I run Redline synthetic 80-140 gear oil. While towing at over 90 degrees, highway speeds for over an hour we pulled into a rest area and checked rear diff temps with a lazor temp gauge. Mine was only 10 degrees hotter (175 degrees) that a stock Scout II, But I had 20 foot travel trailer. Wheel bearings were new roller design but not Timken set10. I also use the weight distribution hitch.

                  Got to be a way to upgrade the rear wheel bearings keeping the five lug. Although it seems clear to start with the full floater instead of the five lug Dana 60 simply because of the ratings...
                  [CENTER]1994 Buick RoadMaSSter Estate Wagon LT1/4L60E. White and Woodgrain Sleeper...PCM 16188051 With SS/V4P/Custom Tune! WOT 12.9 AFR!

                  1990 Chevy Suburban Silverado 5.7L 2wd ECM 1227747 HiWay Lean Cruise 18.5 MPG and 12.5 to 1 AFR at WOT!

                  1972 IH 1210 Isky Cammed Balenced 345 4 speed PCM 16197427 Project!

                  [SIZE=3][B][URL="http://www.gearhead-efi.com/"]GearHead-EFI.com[/URL] EFI Conversions and Chip Tuners![/B][/SIZE]
                  [B]May be all you need to know about EFI![/B]

                  and I still help local JustIH members (for fun) free! :cool: [/CENTER]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Eagle-Mark

                    Congratulations on the Marriage.
                    Thanks!


                    I was just trying to get an upgrade a little cheaper than going all eight lug. Just bought a new set of fifteen tires. Friend gave me a set of nice white spokes that I painted anyway. Didn't want to do all that work, you know the easy way out? It would catch up to me I know.
                    I know the scenario far too well.

                    There's a reason the "development" of my Scout has been stalled for a good while.. I haven't assembled all of the "right parts" for the next evolution, and refuse to spend money on something that I've already "obsoleted" in my head.

                    For instance, "No more investing in 15" tires if I can help it.." I had to pass on a set of 38" Hawgs last month, because they were for 15s..


                    I agree an eight lug full floater is a much better design for, well heavy work. But I did have one axle with hub and wheel come out the side of a 72 Chevy 3/4 pickup with a service box and a cab over camper. So that rear wheel bearing failure is still an option with the full floater. Does help the broken axle scenario.
                    I *almost* ejected a rear axle while flat-towing my racer behind my trail rig. I stopped after I noticed the Scout wanting to jump lanes, and realized it wasn't me trying to nod off, and it wasn't the road..

                    The bearing was wasted, and the retainer was taking a beating, but it all stayed together.

                    I've also driven (on the trail) with one rear axle broken at the splines. Drove out in FWD back to my trailer and towed it home. :)


                    Got to be a way to upgrade the rear wheel bearings keeping the five lug. Although it seems clear to start with the full floater instead of the five lug Dana 60 simply because of the ratings...
                    Sounds like you have the "setup" of the whole assembly in good shape and you're not having any problems..

                    Unless you start grenading R&Ps, I don't think a 60-2 is a worthwhile upgrade.. just run the 44!

                    If you really want the upgraded R&P, then look at building a 60-2 and look at the Set20 housing ends and bearings. While still SF, that would still be an upgrade.

                    Otherwise, I think I'd just keep my money in my pocket.

                    I also wouldn't go with something like Warn's FF kit by itself. I'd be trussing the rear axle housing to keep it from bending. In a SF design, the axle shafts actually carry some of the weight. When it's FF, the tubes carry the weight (and the wheel hubs/spindle). I don't think the SII housing was designed for FF-style loads.

                    If you were dead set on a bulletproof 5 on 5.5 rear end, I could help you spend a lot of money..

                    You could start with a 14-bolt full floater from a Chevy. The wheel hubs are smaller than D60 wheel hubs. You can turn a 14-bolt wheel hub down to clear the center of a 5 on 5.5 wheel.

                    Thus you can narrow a 14-bolt, turn the hub centers down a little, weld the 8-hole wheel stud holes up, then re-drill to 5on 5.5 to build a 14-bolt 1.5" diameter axle shaft FF 5 on 5.5 rear end.

                    Complete with F150 brake rotors and some calipers n' stands, and you can keep your 15" wheels, too.



                    I've toyed with the idea, for my street Scout (that I never get to work on), of going with custom 8-lug 1.31/30sp axle shafts in a stock Dana 44 rear end, then going with Chevy 8-lug disc brakes front and rear, for the extra braking capacity.

                    Probably overkill, though.. but fun to think about.

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