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  • Timing and ECM timing control

    Thought I would post this question and see if anyone could nail down the problem.

    I have been trying to get the timing dialed in on my new conversion, via bill's instructions I adjusted the dizzy with the override link removed to the ECM and once I got the timing adjusted where it sounded good and ran well when reved I reconeceted the overide link and shut down the engine, then restarted it. Now heres the problem, after restarting it idels fine but runs like crap when I rev it, disconect the overide link and it runs fine again.

    Do I just have the dizzy a couple teeth ahead?

    Any Ideas?

    Thanks
    Mark
    P.S. I have been getting an huge amount of help from Bill usn-1, thanks bill. Dont know how I could have gotten it running without your help!

  • #2
    If you tried to time by ear don't.
    You have to use a timing light and set it at 0.
    0* is the second line from the lright while looking at the front of the motor. 1st is -5*.
    When you have it on 0 the rev it up and see if it goes to 20*.
    (limp home)
    Then turn it off and reconnect the wire.
    Start it up and your timing should be about 14* at idle when it's warm.
    using the timing light, rev the motor up and make sure the timing smoothly climbs. If it looks like it is trying to go the wrong way then you may have the P & N wires crossed on the ignition module from the mag pick up.

    Sorry I can't answer sooner but I'm on vacation in Fl so I can only check mail and the board about once a day.

    Bill
    usn-1
    Bill USN-1

    COMMITED TO TEACHING PEOPLE THE "PROPER" WAY TO EFI
    HAMILTON FUEL INJECTION
    May be the answer to all your fuel injection needs!
    Learn to do it right.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'll try that

      Thanks bill, I will try that after I get off work tomarow, thanks. Sorry to bother you on your vacation, you must be having some sick weather down there.

      Mark

      Comment


      • #4
        no bother.
        gives me something to do during the rain showeres.
        Bill USN-1

        COMMITED TO TEACHING PEOPLE THE "PROPER" WAY TO EFI
        HAMILTON FUEL INJECTION
        May be the answer to all your fuel injection needs!
        Learn to do it right.

        Comment


        • #5
          What about spark plug wires

          -Bill, what do you suggest for spark plug wires and do you have to have a seperate coil wire because of the GM coil?

          -Also forgot to ask a question about the ECM power, the orange wire that powers the ECM is that suppose to be wired straight to the battery via a 10amp fuse or is it on when run/start like the rest?

          Thanks
          Mark
          Last edited by moosebrew; 06-29-2003, 01:56 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Dang it!!!

            Well it was running and ideling and then runing like crap but now it wont start at all. I have fuel, I have spark and it still wont start. Now it was working, and I thought about what you said Bill about the magnetic pickup wires possibly being reversed so I switched them and it wouldn't start, then I switched them back and still wont start. Did I burn something out? I woun't think so since I am still getting fuel and spark, any ideas?

            Mark

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: What about spark plug wires

              Originally posted by moosebrew
              -Bill, what do you suggest for spark plug wires and do you have to have a seperate coil wire because of the GM coil?

              -Also forgot to ask a question about the ECM power, the orange wire that powers the ECM is that suppose to be wired straight to the battery via a 10amp fuse or is it on when run/start like the rest?

              Thanks
              Mark
              I used the stock wires from AZ or O'riellys and made a coil wire.

              the org should be 12v all the time. I think it was c16 but i'm in fl and my book is in TX.
              Bill USN-1

              COMMITED TO TEACHING PEOPLE THE "PROPER" WAY TO EFI
              HAMILTON FUEL INJECTION
              May be the answer to all your fuel injection needs!
              Learn to do it right.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Dang it!!!

                Originally posted by moosebrew
                Well it was running and ideling and then runing like crap but now it wont start at all. I have fuel, I have spark and it still wont start. Now it was working, and I thought about what you said Bill about the magnetic pickup wires possibly being reversed so I switched them and it wouldn't start, then I switched them back and still wont start. Did I burn something out? I woun't think so since I am still getting fuel and spark, any ideas?

                Mark
                If it is still spraying fuel while cranking it may be flooded.
                You may need to hold your foot to the floor like on a carb and turn it over.

                Did this happen after you got the timing set to 0*?

                If you try to switch the P&N wires it will have to be completely retimed after you do it. just swapping the wires won't help you.
                also don't swap the wires just looking for a quick fix. it is only if the timing was trying to go the wrong way.

                Have you checked it with a light yet?
                Bill USN-1

                COMMITED TO TEACHING PEOPLE THE "PROPER" WAY TO EFI
                HAMILTON FUEL INJECTION
                May be the answer to all your fuel injection needs!
                Learn to do it right.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yes checked with light

                  Ok, I will try to answer you as best as I can
                  - I got the timing set at 0 and it was holding at 0 when I reved it up some so I am sure I had it right. I then reconected the bypass and shut off the engine. I fired it up again, and it idled fine but when I reved it it bogged again and ran crappy and started to backfire or something so I figured I would try switching the wires.

                  - If these wires are reversed would it be trying to retard the timing instead of advance it under aceleration? I figured this was the case and it was retarding timing and thus cuasing the symptoms.

                  - I disconected the bypass, switched the wires and tried to fire it up again. Cranked, sprayed, spark, but no start. I did not however realize it may be flooded. I will try that tomarow.

                  - After no start I figured it was the wires being switched so I switched them back and still nothing.

                  - When you say that the timing will have to be set again you are refering to, make sure its on 0* and then reconect the bypass, shut down and restart, correct?

                  I really hope it was all because of bad timed flooding, lol, if not I will just have to spend some serious time cursing and tinkering, lol.

                  Thanks again Bill for your invaluable aid!
                  Mark

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Isn't it B1 and C16 that have 12 volt power?
                    As far as the timing yes it should be set to 0 with the wire disconnected but then engine turned off. Then reconnect the wire and restart, then check for timing advancing. Disconnecting this wire to do the timing also seems to set a 42 (?) i think code you may have to clear. If your TPS isn't set correctly wide open throttle may not put it in clear flood mode.
                    [CENTER]1994 Buick RoadMaSSter Estate Wagon LT1/4L60E. White and Woodgrain Sleeper...PCM 16188051 With SS/V4P/Custom Tune! WOT 12.9 AFR!

                    1990 Chevy Suburban Silverado 5.7L 2wd ECM 1227747 HiWay Lean Cruise 18.5 MPG and 12.5 to 1 AFR at WOT!

                    1972 IH 1210 Isky Cammed Balenced 345 4 speed PCM 16197427 Project!

                    [SIZE=3][B][URL="http://www.gearhead-efi.com/"]GearHead-EFI.com[/URL] EFI Conversions and Chip Tuners![/B][/SIZE]
                    [B]May be all you need to know about EFI![/B]

                    and I still help local JustIH members (for fun) free! :cool: [/CENTER]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      turn engine off then reconnect?

                      So I have the procedure wrong? The correct procedure is too:
                      1) disconect bypass
                      2) set to 0*
                      3) turn engine OFF
                      4) reconect bypass
                      5) restart

                      Is that right?
                      the TPS has not been removed from the TBI, it came with it in so I am hoping I dont have to mess with it. How do you clear the error codes?


                      Thanks
                      Again

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Correct on the timing at least that's how I read it.

                        If the tbi came off a running truck it should run. But when your done there is an article on how to adjust the throttle plate and tps at:
                        http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/tpimod2.shtml

                        To clear error codes disconnect power to ecm or just disconnect the battery for awhile, I say that because I have read 15 seconds up to 1 minute, don't know what is correct. All Gone.
                        [CENTER]1994 Buick RoadMaSSter Estate Wagon LT1/4L60E. White and Woodgrain Sleeper...PCM 16188051 With SS/V4P/Custom Tune! WOT 12.9 AFR!

                        1990 Chevy Suburban Silverado 5.7L 2wd ECM 1227747 HiWay Lean Cruise 18.5 MPG and 12.5 to 1 AFR at WOT!

                        1972 IH 1210 Isky Cammed Balenced 345 4 speed PCM 16197427 Project!

                        [SIZE=3][B][URL="http://www.gearhead-efi.com/"]GearHead-EFI.com[/URL] EFI Conversions and Chip Tuners![/B][/SIZE]
                        [B]May be all you need to know about EFI![/B]

                        and I still help local JustIH members (for fun) free! :cool: [/CENTER]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          DONE!!!!!!

                          ok got it figured out.
                          1) Bill, you were correct the wires coming from the Duraspark unit were reversed from what the schematic I saw said. The purple wire connected to the "N" and the Orange wire connected to the "P" pins.

                          2) Bill, you were also correct on it being flooded. Seems that when you dont have a temp control sensor and it is open it tells the computer it is -41* and causes a rich mixture.

                          Once those too things were figured out I was able to set dizzy to 0* and then get the computer hooked up and it ran perfectly.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            SWEET!!
                            NOW IT'S TIME TO FINE TUNE IT!!

                            Need that laptop and some winaldl data.
                            you are interested in the BLM tables.
                            use the wide avg and fill in as many blocks as possible.
                            idle to 3200.
                            If you use the narrow avg and do the same it's even better but not always possible.

                            when your done with the run...save the table.

                            Good luck.
                            Bill USN-1

                            COMMITED TO TEACHING PEOPLE THE "PROPER" WAY TO EFI
                            HAMILTON FUEL INJECTION
                            May be the answer to all your fuel injection needs!
                            Learn to do it right.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Moosebrew--the drawing that you found that misled you as to how to wire the pickup, was that the one I drew? It's located on this board in one of the earlist posts.

                              Comment

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