Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

trying to find comprehensive gm tbi system overview

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • trying to find comprehensive gm tbi system overview

    Hello, all. I am following closely your work on the adaptation of the gm tbi system to the sv engines. the little bit of research I have done is pushing me toward learning to adapt this system to the 258 w/ 4.0 head in my j10, and later to the 800 I am building this spring. The custom 258 I am running means that I am unable to copy someone's system. I need to develop my own.

    I have learned a whole lot from the links on your tbi page, but what I have done is skipped to the middle of the body of knowledge on this subject. I would love to find a complete description of the parts and function of the entire system, either online or in print and am hoping you have some suggestions.

    Thanks, brendan.

  • #2
    Eventually that is what we want right here.
    For the Do IT Yourself-er or as a information center where we can get anything needed.
    But for now it's just compiling information.
    One book I read to understand the GM EFI was Chiltons guide to fuel injection and electronic engine controls 1988 to 1990. I got it on e-bay for $5 and is a wealth of information.
    [CENTER]1994 Buick RoadMaSSter Estate Wagon LT1/4L60E. White and Woodgrain Sleeper...PCM 16188051 With SS/V4P/Custom Tune! WOT 12.9 AFR!

    1990 Chevy Suburban Silverado 5.7L 2wd ECM 1227747 HiWay Lean Cruise 18.5 MPG and 12.5 to 1 AFR at WOT!

    1972 IH 1210 Isky Cammed Balenced 345 4 speed PCM 16197427 Project!

    [SIZE=3][B][URL="http://www.gearhead-efi.com/"]GearHead-EFI.com[/URL] EFI Conversions and Chip Tuners![/B][/SIZE]
    [B]May be all you need to know about EFI![/B]

    and I still help local JustIH members (for fun) free! :cool: [/CENTER]

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks. I understand all the theory, what I am looking for is a GM TBI-specific system overview. Does the Chiltons guide have a GM section? I looked in the haynes equivalent and it basicly has error code charts.

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes It has an overview on all the different aspects of the GM system. And more.
        [CENTER]1994 Buick RoadMaSSter Estate Wagon LT1/4L60E. White and Woodgrain Sleeper...PCM 16188051 With SS/V4P/Custom Tune! WOT 12.9 AFR!

        1990 Chevy Suburban Silverado 5.7L 2wd ECM 1227747 HiWay Lean Cruise 18.5 MPG and 12.5 to 1 AFR at WOT!

        1972 IH 1210 Isky Cammed Balenced 345 4 speed PCM 16197427 Project!

        [SIZE=3][B][URL="http://www.gearhead-efi.com/"]GearHead-EFI.com[/URL] EFI Conversions and Chip Tuners![/B][/SIZE]
        [B]May be all you need to know about EFI![/B]

        and I still help local JustIH members (for fun) free! :cool: [/CENTER]

        Comment


        • #5
          Anything Specific?

          Is there anything specific that you are looking for? Fuel Injection is fuel injection just like a carburetor is a carburetor. They make a million different types but in the end they all do the same thing. Most all fuel injection systems work the same, the software to run them, the type of injectors they use, pressures and input sensors vary but for the moast part fuel injection is fuel injection. It all serves the same purpose, electronic control of the fuel and spark system to maintain optimum performace, fuel economy and emissions.

          You said you went to the links, did you read our FAQ's? www.affordable-efi.com/afi_faq.htm If not there is a comprehensive technical discussion of how fuel injection works in the last FAQ. I am not going to take credit for this it was done by someone else. However there was some content that was totally wrong and I corrected it but for the most part it is very well done.

          I can answer any specific questions you may have. If you would like I can post something on here or a file that you can download if you are interested in a comprehensive look at TBI and how it really works. Read the FAQ's and then let me know what you would like me to discuss and I can help you out.

          A 258, do you have a Jeep or do the Scouts come with a 258 6 as well? I have fuel injected many of these motors and they work real well. The key on them is a good adapter plate to mount the TBI unit and controllig the spark with the ECM.

          Comment


          • #6
            I would really like to see your Gm Tbi overview file. My J10 is my daily driver, and I want to make sure i have all my bases covered before I dive into this. You can't know too much, right?

            I do have couple questions:

            1. I was planning on using my duraspark distributor on the 258/4.0 head engine. How much of an advantage is the ecu controlled spark? For right now, I would choose simplicity over a slight performance or mileage gain, and I'm not really a fan of the gm HEI. Is keeping the duraspark a waste of time?

            2. I was looking at a chevy truck wiring diagram, and I am pretty solid on what i'm looking at except the EVRV solenoid. WHat is this and what does it do?

            Thanks a lot for all your help.

            Comment


            • #7
              Distributor and ERVR

              ERVR is the electronic controlled EGR valve I beleive. It is called many different things but I believe this is what you are referring to. It is not necessary and would be very difficult to adapt to your engine. It is best to calibrate this out of any calibrations; we do on most chips for non GM and other vehicles.

              The duraspark distributor will work fine but you should use the GM module externally to trigger your ECM. This requires blocking off your mechanicla and vacuum advance units. We have a little module that we sell that will hook up to be able to do it. ECM controlled spark is the right way to go for many reasons. The biggest reason has nothing to do with the spark control itself but with the signal that the ECM receives. The GM module provides the perfect squarewave that it is looking for. By using the GM module you insure a proper signal to the ECM. The other thing that it really does for you is control the proper spark advance in both cold and hot conditions.

              By this I mean it adds spark cold for better start ups and it will retard spark when real hot if you get into some real severe engine running conditions that would cause it to get hotter than normal. This way you do not risk oversparking your engine or detonating when real hot. It will also provide more spark for you when in altitude which I am sure you find yourself in from time to time correct?

              I will put together a little thing on TBI fuel injection and post it to this board. Then everyone can read it and learn more. I hope that our FAQ's helped you out.

              Originally posted by brendan
              I would really like to see your Gm Tbi overview file. My J10 is my daily driver, and I want to make sure i have all my bases covered before I dive into this. You can't know too much, right?

              I do have couple questions:

              1. I was planning on using my duraspark distributor on the 258/4.0 head engine. How much of an advantage is the ecu controlled spark? For right now, I would choose simplicity over a slight performance or mileage gain, and I'm not really a fan of the gm HEI. Is keeping the duraspark a waste of time?

              2. I was looking at a chevy truck wiring diagram, and I am pretty solid on what i'm looking at except the EVRV solenoid. WHat is this and what does it do?

              Thanks a lot for all your help.

              Comment


              • #8
                Norm, thanks for your response and for taking the time to post answers here. It's cool to see a small business work with the off roaders instead of trying to turn a 1000% profit on a bit of obscure info.

                Your FAQ has been helpful, but I have a talent for finding questions. It was mostly a tease. I'm looking forward to your expanded version.

                I am EGR free--the 4.0 header my 258 requires has no provision for it. Another bit of fog lifts.

                I'd be interested in buying one of your modules--I'd have to buy one anyway, and I'm not at all opposed to letting you keep some secrets. Anything that helps a cold start is fine by me. my email is [email protected]. please send any info on this module. Actually, if no one is opposed to what amounts to an advertisement of the board, you could put it up here. judging by the 11 views of my duraspark post w/ no reply, there seem to be a lot of lurkers seeking enlightenment.

                thanks again, Brendan

                Comment


                • #9
                  EGR

                  Brendan:
                  When you say your headers are not set up for the EGR....are you meaning EGR or the hole for the O2 sensor?
                  If you go GM TBI you will need the hole for the O2 sensor so the system can operate in closed loop.
                  Bill USN-1

                  COMMITED TO TEACHING PEOPLE THE "PROPER" WAY TO EFI
                  HAMILTON FUEL INJECTION
                  May be the answer to all your fuel injection needs!
                  Learn to do it right.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    There's a bung for an O2 sensor in the first pipe after the header(down pipe, header pipe whatever it's called locally). I have my sensor for the A/F gauge in there now.

                    The jeep 4.0L HO(and i think the earlier non-HO Renix engines as well) did not use an egr system. If they did, I don't know where they got the Exhaust Gas from to Recirculate. My header is a stock replacement for a leter 4.0HO and my down pipe is from a jeep YJ, neither of which has any kind of port, pipe or bung to re-route the gasses.

                    I do have the EGR port on the intake manifold( a 258 part). I has the egr valve in it, but with the vacuum lines removed. It seals up fine, so I havent made a block-off plate for it yet.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      O2

                      That's good that you have the bung already there. Now, are you going to run the O2 gauge and the TBI of of the same O2 sensor?

                      Do the intake and exhaust manifold connect at all or are they totally seperate?
                      Bill USN-1

                      COMMITED TO TEACHING PEOPLE THE "PROPER" WAY TO EFI
                      HAMILTON FUEL INJECTION
                      May be the answer to all your fuel injection needs!
                      Learn to do it right.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I was planning to use the same one. The Autometer instructions did address using an existing sensor on FI vehicles so I guess the physics work.The GM TBI wants a heated O2 sensor, right? If not, I'll put another bung in the down pipe.

                        I forget, the scouts never got the late style aluminum intake manifold did they? I think AMC came out with that in 1980. The manifolds are separate, though they are connected by a pipe from the exhaust manifold to the intake manifold where the EGR valve bolts on. The early style(which all scouts must have--they dropped the 258 before 1980, right?) the intake and exhaust are bolted together aren't they?

                        The later manifolds are a good swap for 258, because of the flow characteristics of the aluminum intake and the 2 bbl flange.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          O2

                          I never ran a 258...All of mine are 345's. But I don't think IH used the 258 for very long.

                          I run a 1 wire O2 sensor on all of mine. The only advantage I know of for the 3 wire (heated) is it gets it to operating temp sooner. I think about 600* for reliable operation. Which allows it to go to closed loop operation sooner.
                          There are WB sensors out there that guys are using for tuning but you need to read about that somewhere else!!!!!$$$$$$
                          Bill USN-1

                          COMMITED TO TEACHING PEOPLE THE "PROPER" WAY TO EFI
                          HAMILTON FUEL INJECTION
                          May be the answer to all your fuel injection needs!
                          Learn to do it right.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The heated bosch style the Autometer uses creates the same signal as a 1-wire, I'm pretty sure.

                            My tuning demands are pretty small. The carb on the jeep now is sized for a 351-c up to a 460. I'm not picky enough to swap to something else in the meantime.

                            You're not missing out on anything with the 258. It's almost a novelty, really. same mileage, less horsepower, same torque as an AMC v8. I built mine with the pre-1980 crank which is really heavy and great for crawling. I've only driven my 266 around the yard a few times, but I get the impression that the 258 and SV family had a similar design philosophy.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Posts and Duraspark

                              I have nothing to really hide and you guys can ask as you would like. What I do can be done by many, the difference is 24 years of doing it and millions of vehicles on the road that have my calibration in them.

                              We will sell you the module box for $90, I usually get a little more but no big deal. This is nothing more than taking the module that is on the external coil distributor and mounting it in a cute little package. We also have the connectors and the wire so that it is real easy to hook up. The hardest part is locking up your mechanical advance and your vacuum advance and installing a 2 pin connector on your pick up module.

                              If you would like one send me an email at [email protected] with name address etc. I am not sure how to look and see what others are looking at or whatever on this board but if more people reading this are interested please let me know. If we have enough at one time I will give everyone a bit more of a discount. My dad just made up a new batch of these so I have plenty to sell for now.

                              I have done this type of group sale before where several people in a club would like to get together and we would sell all at a reduced price. Mark has changed my ad here for a $395 harness, chip, fuel pump and adapter plate. This is over $100 less than we normally would sell this for so if interested go for it.

                              I will put together a TBI sheet and post it here for all to read, now I just need to find the time and the correct words for it.

                              I will try to answer questions as time permits but if I do not get back to anyone on the post please be patient, I will answer.

                              Originally posted by brendan
                              Norm, thanks for your response and for taking the time to post answers here. It's cool to see a small business work with the off roaders instead of trying to turn a 1000% profit on a bit of obscure info.

                              Your FAQ has been helpful, but I have a talent for finding questions. It was mostly a tease. I'm looking forward to your expanded version.

                              I am EGR free--the 4.0 header my 258 requires has no provision for it. Another bit of fog lifts.

                              I'd be interested in buying one of your modules--I'd have to buy one anyway, and I'm not at all opposed to letting you keep some secrets. Anything that helps a cold start is fine by me. my email is [email protected]. please send any info on this module. Actually, if no one is opposed to what amounts to an advertisement of the board, you could put it up here. judging by the 11 views of my duraspark post w/ no reply, there seem to be a lot of lurkers seeking enlightenment.

                              thanks again, Brendan

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X