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  • Fuel Injection questions?

    Ohh Ohh Question.

    Hey what is the advantage over Holly pro injection? Cost? Is this even the same thing?

    Steve T

  • #2
    Cost for sure and a system that you can literally buy any part for when needed from any parts store anywhere. I'm sure Bill Hamilton will add to this.
    [CENTER]1994 Buick RoadMaSSter Estate Wagon LT1/4L60E. White and Woodgrain Sleeper...PCM 16188051 With SS/V4P/Custom Tune! WOT 12.9 AFR!

    1990 Chevy Suburban Silverado 5.7L 2wd ECM 1227747 HiWay Lean Cruise 18.5 MPG and 12.5 to 1 AFR at WOT!

    1972 IH 1210 Isky Cammed Balenced 345 4 speed PCM 16197427 Project!

    [SIZE=3][B][URL="http://www.gearhead-efi.com/"]GearHead-EFI.com[/URL] EFI Conversions and Chip Tuners![/B][/SIZE]
    [B]May be all you need to know about EFI![/B]

    and I still help local JustIH members (for fun) free! :cool: [/CENTER]

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by n2ihc
      Ohh Ohh Question.

      Hey what is the advantage over Holly pro injection? Cost? Is this even the same thing?

      Steve T
      The Holley system is fuel only and extra $$$ to buy the closed loop kit. The GM system is closed loop, controls fuel AND spark timing and parts are available everywhere. You can also control a myriad of other variables as well. In short is FULLY adjustable!! Not to mention cheap when you scrounge parts from the junkyard.

      Comment


      • #4
        Forgive my lack of knowlage trying to get educated here. What is closed loop? What does it do and mean?

        Also so this means it's upgradeable right? If I want to run a holly truck avenger now and swap to TBI later I can do that right? It's will use the same computer that it is using to controle my dizzy?

        Also are there chips to improve performance? If you used a chip would it help you fourwheelin and rock crawling?

        Steve T
        Last edited by n2ihc; 12-31-2002, 05:32 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Questions!!

          You ask very good questions. The only problem is some of them are more involved than you you think!!

          To start- closed loop is having a feed back to the computer so that it can self adjust the AFR- air fuel ratio. Now...trying not to get too deep into this, the computer will operate in open loop which is a set of parameters programed into the chip for the optimum....this can be optimum fuel mileage or optimum performance. There are slight differences in the 2 when you are programming the chips. Most people believe that a car can get better mileage if it is tuned and operated in open loop. Problem is this takes a lot of engine monitoring to ensure nothing changes like worn plugs, bad plug wire, altitude......
          So the closed loop is much more convenient and effective at adjusting to the outside and inside engine conditions. The O2 sensors reads the amount of oxygen coming out the exhaust and adjust the computer to send more or less fuel as needed. So closed loop is the best way to go for the set it and forget it theory.

          Now for upgrading... it is fully adjustable as you develop your motor. It is self learning to a degree as long as it is not big changes. headers, mufflers, small cam. more than that and you need to burn a new chip!! so it is upgradeable.

          If I was to spend the money on a truck avenger I would not change later. Unless you have more dollars than most. and just like to change.
          I wheeled with the stock 2 barrel for a long time till I had this system complete.

          The computer is only used when you do the complete EFI conversion. the dist conversion is needed to send the ign signal to the EFI computer.
          You can convert the dist to the ford duraspark ign by leaving the advance alone then when you do the EFI just safety wire the advance and hook the dist to the EFI.

          The chip is tuned to what you are looking for. if it is trail only I might bring the timing in a little faster since all the trail runs are at low RPM. and maybe have it just a little rich. for the street and occasional dirt road I would set it up for highway cruising for the best mileage.

          HTH to explain it a little.
          Last edited by Bill usn-1; 01-04-2003, 10:12 PM.
          Bill USN-1

          COMMITED TO TEACHING PEOPLE THE "PROPER" WAY TO EFI
          HAMILTON FUEL INJECTION
          May be the answer to all your fuel injection needs!
          Learn to do it right.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by n2ihc
            Forgive my lack of knowledge trying to get educated here. What is closed loop? What does it do and mean?

            Also so this means it's upgradeable right? If I want to run a holly truck avenger now and swap to TBI later I can do that right? It's will use the same computer that it is using to control my dizzy?

            Also are there chips to improve performance? If you used a chip would it help you fourwheelin and rock crawling?

            Steve T
            There is a section on that in the fuel injection faq's
            open/closed loop
            There is a lot of stuff there that may help Steve. It did for me.
            [CENTER]1994 Buick RoadMaSSter Estate Wagon LT1/4L60E. White and Woodgrain Sleeper...PCM 16188051 With SS/V4P/Custom Tune! WOT 12.9 AFR!

            1990 Chevy Suburban Silverado 5.7L 2wd ECM 1227747 HiWay Lean Cruise 18.5 MPG and 12.5 to 1 AFR at WOT!

            1972 IH 1210 Isky Cammed Balenced 345 4 speed PCM 16197427 Project!

            [SIZE=3][B][URL="http://www.gearhead-efi.com/"]GearHead-EFI.com[/URL] EFI Conversions and Chip Tuners![/B][/SIZE]
            [B]May be all you need to know about EFI![/B]

            and I still help local JustIH members (for fun) free! :cool: [/CENTER]

            Comment


            • #7
              Okay so another question. You guys going to market a kit? with video or good instructions? You should.

              Steve T

              Comment


              • #8
                KITS.........Let me think...........no

                If We were to do kits then it would be the same as everyone else out there selling EFI kits. You can check with the advertisers on this site for kits. We are just trying to pass info on to the cheap old do it yourselfer!!!! Those of us with more time than money!!!
                Now a video...... If only santa would get here with my new digital camera and camcorder!!!!! I like the video idea much better than typing with 2 fingers!!!

                Thanks
                Bill USN-1

                COMMITED TO TEACHING PEOPLE THE "PROPER" WAY TO EFI
                HAMILTON FUEL INJECTION
                May be the answer to all your fuel injection needs!
                Learn to do it right.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Holley System -Something to think about

                  Here is a respone that I received from a customer of ours who was on the trail with a guy who had installed a Holley system in his (Jeep) sorry guys.

                  Another item that has been brought to my attention is certain electronic interference characteristic of aftermarket fuel injection. I have a friend who installed a Holly Projection system on his V8 only to find that on highways when a CB is activated close by the truck sputters. Any other time everything runs perfectly. Another problem with the projection was witnessed along a power line trail. (One of those 675,000 Volt lines) We had to cross over, or should I say under, its path upon which his truck cut out and had to be towed until we were about 100 yards past the power lines. Everyone with carb's was ok, but his just died within 20 ft or so of the powerline. While I realize that 675,000 volts is not common with on road use, trails frequently cross under large powerlines in offroad use.

                  You can buy what you would like but this testimonial is pretty telling about what can happen with some of the aftermarket systems. GM and the other auto companies have invested millions into the development and testing of their ECM's. You just do not get that level of testing with the aftermarket.

                  If you are looking for a Projection system go to Ebay and you will be able to find alot of these systems that have been sitting on shelves; mostly because people could not get them to work.

                  If you are looking to fuel inject your vehicle and are looking for the most cost effective outlet go to the DIY-EFI pages. They have a ton of information there and can really help you out. Mark has a link to their site in these pages.

                  If you are looking to save a lot of money you can also let me know what you would like to do and I can help you spec out your system, build a chip or anything that you may need. We can help out and not require you to purchase a complete system. We can sell you the harness, chip and fuel pump and you can gather the rest of the ocmponents yourself and save a lot of money.

                  Mark has posted some of our FAQ's here and you may want to read them and/or go to our webstie and read a longer list of them. You do not need everything that comes stock in a fuel injection system and our harnesses and chips allow for that. This can save you a lot of money just eliminating the unnecessary items.

                  I will talk to Mark and see what we can do to offer anyone that would like a simple harness, chip and fuel pump for their Scout and provide a parts list for the other information that you need.

                  Happy New Year To All.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Questions!!

                    Not to get real technical here but the O2 sensor measures the amount of oxygen in the exhaust and adjsuts accordingly. Hence the name oxygen sensor. Ever wonder why a misfiring car continues to run rich? If it was measuring fuel it would send the system lean. However when a cylinder is misfiring, even though it is spitting raw unburned fuel, it will send the system even richer because the O2 sensor is reading oxygen content, which you have more of with an unburned fuel charge and not fuel content of the exhaust.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      O2 sensor.

                      Seems the wording in mine is different than yours!!!! (or was) That was a Homer.... DOH....what you think and what you say aren't always the same. and technically you were right.
                      Bill USN-1

                      COMMITED TO TEACHING PEOPLE THE "PROPER" WAY TO EFI
                      HAMILTON FUEL INJECTION
                      May be the answer to all your fuel injection needs!
                      Learn to do it right.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        4bbl TBI possible?

                        Just thinking of the future here.
                        I saw on Jeff's donor page there were a few chevys that had a 4bbl, ie the 90 caddy.

                        1.Would this be a good donor for a 392 or 345 with a 4bbl?

                        2.On some of the other posts it says that the chevy ECM 1227747 from a truck would be the best, would this run the 4bbl TBI or would it be better to get the ECM from the same car?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 4bbl TBI possible?

                          Originally posted by Alan Chatterton
                          Just thinking of the future here.
                          I saw on Jeff's donor page there were a few chevys that had a 4bbl, ie the 90 caddy.

                          1.Would this be a good donor for a 392 or 345 with a 4bbl?

                          2.On some of the other posts it says that the chevy ECM 1227747 from a truck would be the best, would this run the 4bbl TBI or would it be better to get the ECM from the same car?
                          I have not seen an actual 4 barrel factory TBI. There may be one out there but I have never seen it. Holley makes a 4 barrel TBI that you could adapt to use with the GM ecm but I would have to ask why?
                          They run the 454 chevy off a 2 barrel TBI with 2 in throttle plate. I think unless you go to a full race IH motor :) a 2 barrel will be fine.
                          The 1227747 should run a 4 barrel holley TBI if you wire both sets of injector feeds from the ECM. Most systems only run one set of wires.
                          If you get an ecm from a 90 caddy you will need to have a way to burn a new chip for it.
                          Bill USN-1

                          COMMITED TO TEACHING PEOPLE THE "PROPER" WAY TO EFI
                          HAMILTON FUEL INJECTION
                          May be the answer to all your fuel injection needs!
                          Learn to do it right.

                          Comment

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